Of Pandas and Water
Posted at 2:50 pm August 29, 2008 by Ellie Rosenbaum
Su Lin testing the waters at 10 months old
It is with a fair degree of regularity that narrators here at the San Diego Zoo's Giant Panda Research Station are asked by guests why the giant pandas are so dirty; after all, the ones they see in magazines or books are so snowy white (and black), for the most part. This opens up a whole area for discussion. Since the pandas in residence here are part of a long-term research project, we try to keep them as close to a natural state as possible, both physically and environmentally.
This is why there are bushes and rocks for cover, why we ask visitors to be quiet in that area of the Zoo, and why only the staff may interact with the pandas for husbandry purposes. With minimal interruptions for care and restocking of food, the animals are left to do what they would, hopefully, do in the wild. We've seen much evidence that this is the case, as cubs are successfully conceived, born, and reared, each behaving much as the last, allowing for individual differences in their personalities, and Bai Yun and Gao Gao continue to behave much as we've seen over these last few years.
Part of this attempt to maintain them as naturally as possible is allowing them to tend to their own coat maintenance. This involves, among other things, dirt bathing. While Bai Yun rarely exhibits this behavior unless she's teaching it to her cubs, all of the pandas that have been in residence here engage in this behavior. Dirt bathing may serve to absorb excess oils or smother insects, but in any case, pandas carry a lot of dirt in the upper layer of their coarse, thick coat. Watching them scratching in the sunshine reveals loose fur (and lots of dust) flying. Unlike cats or other mammals that groom or bathe themselves, scratching seems to be the extent of their coat "grooming." As a result, the pandas look and are a bit grubby. Since they don't bathe themselves as part of their normal behavior, they are not bathed here at the San Diego Zoo.
Just how much dirt they carry in their fur can be seen when a panda walks through or sits in a pool. The formerly clear water quickly turns a muddy brown and the bears often appear cleaner for it. In addition, giant pandas walk, sit, or lie on the ground as often as any place else, so they get dirty. Pristinely white-and-black pandas shown in photographs are most often the result of photo enhancement.
But water plays an important role in the life of the giant panda beyond its obvious importance for drinking. All of the outdoor enclosures at the San Diego Zoo contain not just a pool, but a wall-mounted drinker to provide a constant source of fresh water. The ranges of wild pandas have been shown to contain at least a small stream or rivulet for drinking. Our bears also use the pool for cooling off and just plain play, splashing with their paws or rolling around. And water play increases dramatically as a female panda comes into estrus. It is believed that this enhances her "aroma," better sending out the olfactory message to males in the area that she's approaching that important time of year, very necessary for these normally solitary animals.
But do they swim? This is another question that comes up occasionally, usually from children about the age of 8. (I'll leave you to ponder the significance of that!) As far as we know, they don't. It's been reported that they can ford a river if they have to, but imagine trying to stay afloat for long with that thick fur coat soaking wet. Even here during rain or after water play, the pandas are seen briskly shaking off a shower of water.
While bath time for pandas is an intriguing idea and would certainly clean them up (temporarily), it's not likely that it's going to become part of the routine here at the Giant Panda Research Station. We'll let them stay as natural as they can and enjoy these wondrous creatures as they are.
Ellie Rosenbaum is a panda narrator at the San Diego Zoo.
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August 29th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Thank-you for some interesting facts. I learn something new all the time about our dear pandas!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I was just noticing today how dark Gao Gao was from the rear. Guess you answered my questions.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I don't care how dirty they are, they are still gorgeous! I think some of my favorite pictures EVER were the shots of Su Lin (if I remember correctly) on that muddy day when she looked like she'd been dipped in chocolate, she was so covered in mud!! She was still a cub and not yet weaned from Bai Yun.
Thanks for more great info, Ellie. There is always more for us to learn.
It should be a VERY exciting LABOR day weekend for Zoo Atlanta! Hopefully we will all soon have 1 or 2 HEALTHY STRONG new cubs to enjoy!!! Come on Lun Lun!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Then why are the young pandas in the youtube video bathed in China and I have seen them at the NZ hose down the pandas there.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Hi, Ellie–very interesting information as always. But since their coats are oily, wouldn't the water be repelled so that the coat wouldn't get " wet" ? Are pandas' coats very different from polar bears' coats? I would also think that their body fat might help them float?
August 29th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I certainly support the SDZ's way of keeping the pandas - as much like natural sure is paying off in healthy pandas and beautiful babies who are/have grown up to wonderful, healthy adults. That having been said, it was still an absolute hoot and joy to watch the youtube video on the pandas getting their baths! And, yes, I will also stand in line (with my slicker on) to help with that job (or most of the other panda support jobs)!
I still remember the chuckles I got when Bai Yun 'introduced' SuLin to the water in the pool, and how unhappy Su was. She scrambled for the trees everytime she got a chance. But the biggest chuckle was when Bai wasn't paying attention and Su investigated the water on her own HER WAY!!!! And we think ZZ is independent! I think it's those Bai Yun/Gao Gao genes!
Thanks for the wonderful memories invoked by the picture of Su and the pool!
August 29th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Dear Elle:
Thank you so much for writing about Pandas and water/baths
I suspect all of us who read the writings of fellow pandaholics have seen the Great video of the Beijing Pandas getting a bath and have also watched the hilarity of Tai Shan getting a hose down that he absolutely loved. There is something truly grand about watching any of the pandas enjoying that gift of Water 
We have gotten to see Su sitting in her pond and splashing! We watch the pandacam and think 'Bai simply glows with an aura!' The same thought occurs when watching Su Lin. What fun it was to watch Zhen in the rain many months ago and then to see her on her 1st birthday turn into a muddy mess as she climbed on her cake and fell onto the ground 
Next day…we got to see her glowing 'aura' Clean!!! I need to say this: I love to see Gao Gao on exhibit! Mr. Casual, That is Gao! I adore his back and most especially his feet! One can fairly easily figure out where he's been by looking at both 
The panda fur is so beautiful! Gao Gao, creates a 'history'
Thanks for the information!
of where he's been!
August 29th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Ellie, thank you for building my panda knowledge-bank. Pandas are just cute even with all that soil in their fur.
What a great news — I am in tears — Lun Lun is for sure pregnant! Finally, we will have a cub this year, wonderful!
August 29th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Have you heard anything about Hua Mei and whether she's had babies this year? I know the earthquake disrupted so much at Wolong and she was evacuated, but I'm wondering if she's produced another set of twins.
Thanks for all your updates. I'll be going to the Chengdu Panda Reserve this summer and can hardly wait to see these wonderful animals in their own land.
August 29th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Moderator: I see the info on " Panda Tales" airing on San Diego's PBS. Any chance that will be picked up nationwide by PBS? Or put on sale on DVD (like National Zoo's Tai shan's first year)? I don't live in San Diego (or even in California for that matter) so I'm disappointed I won't be able to see the show….
Moderator's note: Yes, PBS stations nationwide will air the show later this year (Nov. or Dec.).
August 29th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Diane K., I agree; there is so much to learn about these marvelous animals. Don't you just love it when the staff posts a new entry here? We pandaholics must have our regular fixes!!!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Zhang Ka births a male cub 8/26/2008 at Research Center. Cub weighs 198.8 grams and is healthy. This is second pregnancy. First pregnancy took place 2006 and labor was long. Between breaking water and actual birth took 34 hours, a world record. That first cub weighed 218 grams which broke world record for heaviest cub. Fortunately second birth was smooth. Between breaking water and appearance of cub, time lapse was 17 minutes. Can't find English language article yet. Chinese language article with photos can be found by googling: 大熊猫" å¼ å¡â€
Then look for pandaclub dot net. When you get to this page, look along left margin and click on link with 8/27/2008 upload date.
August 30th, 2008 at 3:56 am
I agree with Diane K.#. Whenever I click on your page I can be sure that there is another interesting article about the pandas. Thank you, Ellie. As much as it contributed to the fun of the zoo visitors in Peking I personally found the view of their pandas being shampooed a bit disturbing particularly as, I understand, it would interfere with the grooming of their coat. I think it is great that SDZ aims to provide an environment as natural as possible for their pandas.
A bit of the subject, some sad news. I just read that the panda baby which had been born by panda mother Dan Dan in Kobe died after only three days. The zoo staff are busy investigating the cause of its death. Since pandas are such endangered animals it is even sadder to lose a baby panda. I also feel sorry for the Japanese people who were so proud to have a baby panda after 20 years. But, unfortunately that's life.
August 30th, 2008 at 4:58 am
thank you very interesting,allways something new.
August 30th, 2008 at 8:07 am
I saw a video recently of the 8 Beijing panda cubs being bathed. The Chinese certainly approach pandas differently than the SDZ! But I have to say, you guys seem to know what you're doing.
August 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Off Topic: Meerekats - Many thanks for the great camera angle, clear picture and close-ups of our sweet Zhen Zhen this morning.
Zhen Zhen put on the most adorable acrobatic show for the throngs of visitors today. It was so exciting to watch. From Zhen's vantage point in the tree, she was gazing down at the visitors as they, cameras in hand, took pictures of her performance.
After an exhausting morning of play, Zhen climbed down to her favorite branch and decided to take a nap. The visitors that were there at that time truly lucked out. I wished I were there to witness Zhen's presentation. I did, however, send myself some postcards as a remembrance. Lots of fun
.
August 30th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
I've enjoyed watching the pandas play in the water and rain.
This is an opportune post as I have just read on the ZA site that a certain panda's waters broke this morning. What great timing.
August 30th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Atlanta Update: Lun Lun's water broke today at 1:25 EST according to the Zoo Atlanta website. They expect the birth to happen anytime in the next 48 hours. Yippee!!!!!!
August 30th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Oh boy everyone! This is it! ZA's website has announced that Lun's water has broken Saturday afternoon and birth will take place within the next 48 hrs!! Let's all hope that everything will go well and this will be a healthy and robust cub! ZA lists several links to watch live streaming video but I can't find it on a single one. If anyone else had better luck, please post!!
August 30th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Lun Lun's water broke at 1:25 p.m. — birth expected within 48 hours. Yea!
August 30th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Lun Lun IS in labor….woooohoooo
August 30th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
speaking of water…lun's water broke today…saturday…
August 30th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
I don't know if this will get posted in time to alert anyone, but ZA has their camera on. Lun Lun's water broke earlier today and they are expecting a cub within the next 48 hours! How cool of them to let us watch!!
August 30th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Sat., 8/30/2008: Hi! I hope that this gets on the comment page because this is significant, you all! I finally got a chance to get on the computer late this afternoon after getting the stats on Hurricane Gustav and Tropical Storm Hanna, got on the AZ website panda page, and low and behold, the cam is ON!! Live streaming of Lun going thru labor! Her water broke at 1:25pm EDT, and they are expecting Lun to have her baby anytime within the next 48 hours. There is also a list of websites that are also live streaming Lun's labor and birth process on the panda page. Along with the AZ website, the other websites that are currently live streaming Lun are CNN, wsbtv, myfoxatlanta, cbs46, 11alive, and AJC. All of these websites are dot com sites; AZ is a dot org site. So, hope that this gets on the comment page so that everyone will know where to go to and watch Lun give birth to her second baby panda!
I did read the new article about pandas and water. That was very interesting, and seeing pandas playing in water is really fun to watch, especially when they are little, starting to explore this liquid stuff, sniffing it, then getting their paws wet! I love the picture of little Su Lin at 10 months old trying out the water in the pool. She looks so interested in this liquid stuff, then checks it out with her paw. SOOOO CUTE!!
Well, hate to cut this a little bit short, but I've got to get back on the AZ cam and see how Lun is doing with her labor pains!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
August 30th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
First!!!! Thank YOU Chari Mercier!!!
Now! I wonder as I sit in front of my computer on 8/30/08 at 6:35PM Pacific time, how many of you have 'sat' with me for the last 4 hours watching Dear Lun Lun!!! This afternoon and this evening are making all of us aware of how important the love and conservation efforts of all endangered animals really are. Bless You who Love! Let's hope Lun Lun gets her new cub!!!
August 30th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
It's a Giant Panda! Lun Lun just now gave birth
August 30th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Lun Lun has a cub!! Just saw her give birth around a little after 10PM.
Congratulations to ZA!
August 30th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Lun Lun is a Mom! 10:10pm EST - cub was born!!!
I had been watching (thank you ZA for the weekend cam!) and was just talking with my daughter about how Lun Lun's tail was up… and saw the baby! It took her just a bit to pick it up, but she's now cuddling, cleaning and (hopefully) feeding!
Yay Lun Lun! We've kept our 'panda baby a year' streak going!
I'll admit it here… I shed some happy tears! Congratulations Lun Lun (and Yang Yang) and ZA (and thanks again for the cam and sharing this incredible event!).
August 30th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
10:10 pm edt. We HAVE A CUB IN ATLANTA!!!! WOO HOO!!!! Panda Cam is live and she is cleaning up the baby!!!! What an awesome thing!! I actually saw the baby be born!!! OMG!! What a blessing!!!
Keep that baby healthy Lun! We all know you will!!!
August 30th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Lun Lun gave birth at Zoo Atlanta at about 10:13 EST tonight!!!
August 30th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
a cub we have a cub in atlanta…
August 30th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
To ALLLLLL Pandafans on the planet Earth!!!!!And Especially to the Panda Staff in Atlanta!!!! And Completely, Lun lun!!!! WE'VE Got a BABY PANDA at the Atlanta Zoo!!!! By my clock, this happened at 7:14 Pacific Time…or 10:14 Eastern Time on August 30th 2008!!!! This is as wonderful to have witnessed as the birth of my grandchildren
Bless ALL! Thank You for the opportunity to share, SDZ! Thank you Atlanta Zoo for turning on the pandacam!!!! Thank You, China, for making the pandas a 'mission for the future' and LOVING them all!!! Gosh! I truly hope every single FAN spent today watching the pandacam at Atlanta 
We ALL are Blessed today!!!!!!
August 30th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Oh, panda lovers!! How much more exciting can it get!! It is 8:15 p.m. Mountain Daylight Time and I just witnessed the birth of Lun Lun's new cub!! I'm sure some of you witnessed it also. What a moment it was!!. Her water broke at around 1:30 p.m. AZ time and they kept the panda cam on all this time, so I was able to watch Lun as she kept getting more and more restless. The zoo announcement said she could be in labor for up to 48 hours, but I knew as I watched her that it was going to be way sooner. There were keepers stationed at each end of the den giving her bits of fruit and biscuits as she rolled around, and paced, and licked. She kept on pawing at the wooden strip that runs along the center of the den. At one point I thought she would eventually dislodge it. That's how agitated she was. Finally I noticed her pushing hard and out popped the little one. It seems to me it took Lun longer to pick up the cub in her mouth and start licking it than the time she had Mei Lan. However, right now, she's in that familiar curled up position, with the precious little bundle safely tucked in her arms getting that life sustaining licking that only a mama panda can impart. Wow!! How cool is that?
Now, we are all going to be engrossed with this little one. I look forward to seeing all your postings and sharing your experience. Happy panda cub watching, everyone!!
Thanks to the AZ panda crew for allowing us to witness this joyous occasion!! Congratulations to all who have a part in giving Lun Lun the care that she needs - the birth watchers, the bamboo crew, the veterenarians, the keepers, the zoo management! God's world has just gotten bigger by one panda cub!! Hallelujah!!
August 30th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
We have a panda!!!! Way to go Ms. Lun Lun. I missed the birth by 4 minutes. Lun, you blessed us all.
August 30th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Congratulations Lun Lun, Yang Yang, Mei Lan and the Atlanta Zoo!
This is very exciting news. I just witnessed the birth of Lun Lun's baby. Lun Lun was in hard labor, unable to get comfortable, when at approximately 7:12 P.M. Pacific Time, Lun Lun stood up and immediately out pops the adorable baby. Lun Lun stepped away from the newborn cub for a brief moment, then turned around and picked up her tiny baby. Now mom and baby are bonding. What a wonderful feeling to have experienced this momentous occasion.
Thank you Atlanta Zoo for allowing everyone to watch the birth live on your panda cam. I want to thank the San Diego Zoo for maintaining these blogs, which provide a means for us to share panda information.
August 30th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Zoo ATL has a cub born at 10:10pm est.
August 30th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
LUN LUN GAVE BIRTH!!!!!!!!! There is another baby panda in america YAY!
August 30th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
YAY!!!!! There is rejoicing in Pandaland tonight!!! Congratulations to Lun Lun and Big Daddy Yang on the birth of their new baby! Mei Lan has a sibling….how great! I am so excited I can't stand it!
August 30th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Do Giant Pandas ever get infested with any kind of insects or parasites, and how do you treat them for it? I see them scratching, sometimes a lot, and I wonder about these things.
August 30th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Very interesting blog….pandas seem to enjoy their pools.
AND Lun Lun is a proud mother of a cub born at 10:10pm.!!!!!! Hoorary, a cub this year to watch & love. ZA did have the panda cam on the whole time - so even though I missed the actual birth (doggone) we could see what Lun was experiencing.
August 30th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Sun., 8/31/2008; Atlanta Zoo update: On Sat., Aug. 30, 2008, at 10:10pm EDT, Lun Lun has finally given birth to her second baby panda tonite after 131 days since her AI procedure! The looooong wait is over, you all!!! By my estimate, she was only in labor a little over 8 hours, which is pretty darn quick by panda standards. I just now got the news on the AZ website because my son was on the computer playing one of his games. I did not think that Lun would have her baby this quick, but she surprised me! I didn't get a chance to see it live, so I'm sure that the AZ panda keepers will have a video available for all of us to watch in the next several hours. They are also still monitoring Lun for a possible second cub since momma pandas do have a 50% rate of having twins. They'll keep watching Lun for that possible birth for the next 12 to 24 hours. Didn't see the new baby yet; Lun had her back to the cam when I checked it. WOW!!!! Another panda baby for all of us to watch everyday, and seeing this baby grow and develop over the next several months. More milestones to watch out for now! Lun and baby are doing well according to the panda keeper staff at AZ. Hope everyone of you have gotten this news by now!
CONGRATS TO LUN LUN AND YANG YANG–proud parents of baby no. 2!!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
Well, gonna go back to the AZ pandacam to check out Lun and her baby!
August 30th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
The baby is born, I am too excited!!! Finally we got a baby too. It's after mid-night, but I am still hooked to the pandacam…
August 30th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Hi again! I was checking CNN website for any news about Lun's new baby panda and saw the news about another earthquake that has hit Sichuan Province, China, again on Saturday for the third time since May. This quake measured 6.1 magnitude on the Richter scale and it hit Panzhihua City in Sichuan Province, which I am suspecting is the epicenter site. In Sichuan, 22 people died and about 100 were injured. In nearby Yunnan Province, 5 people died and about 35 were injured. In both provinces, homes that have held up thru the previous 2 earthquakes have been hit with this one. About 1,000 homes were destroyed and cracks were found in walls of over 400 other homes. Rescue teams are headed to Sichuan and Yunnan Provinces, but rugged terrain and heavy rains have slowed down that effort for now. Yunnan Red Cross volunteers are distributing 3,400 tents and 2,000 quilts to the people that were affected by this latest quake. The only thing that the Xinhua News did not mention was how Wolong Panda Reserve is holding up during this 3rd quake in 3 months. So, if there is anyone out there that has an ear on China and has friends there, hopefully you can find out how Wolong is doing with the few remaining pandas that are still there. This is very worrisome for me because this will still prevent any research teams from going up those badly scarred mountains to get a real good count on the wild pandas that have survived the first 2 quakes. Apparently, the Longmenshan fault is still very active even tho this fault has had some quiet stretches during the 3 months since the May 12 quake. There was a second quake that hit the same area back in late July that was a 6.0 just one day after the Olympic torch relay went thru that area.
Anyway, one great news and one bad news today! Please continue to pray for the Chinese people in the quake zone and for the pandas still at Wolong Reserve along with their keepers. This has been a very rough 3 months for all of them, and I'm wondering when this fault line will ever settle down for good. I'll take the great news of Lun Lun's new baby panda that was born earlier tonite! That made my day and nite for me!
Still praying for China's earthquake victims and pandas,
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
August 30th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Thank you, Ellie. Congratulations to Lun Lun and all those at Zoo Atlanta with the newly born panda. I'm also watching Bai and Zhen having a playing bout at 11:00 PM San Diego Time. They started before 10:30 PM and are still having a grand time.
August 31st, 2008 at 1:34 am
Congratulations Lun Lun and Yang Yang. My first panda from birth (ZZ was a few weeks old when I discovered the SDZ cam). Just switched to Atlanta and saw Lun Lun cuddling her little one, though of course I couldn't see it. Lovely. Sorry to have hijacked the pandas and water section!! Going back to watch more and find out the time difference between Atlanta and the UK. Best news all week.
August 31st, 2008 at 2:54 am
Lun Lun at the Atlanta Zoo gave birth to a cub last night (August 30) at 10:10 PM. Mom and baby are doing well.
August 31st, 2008 at 7:41 am
Many Congratulations to Lun Lun and Yang Yang on the arrival of your 2nd cub - thank you to all Staff for keeping the PandaCam manned 24/7……. it was all so exciting.
~~Keeping my fingers crossed Bai will remain with us and have another cub with 'Mr Bo' next year~~
August 31st, 2008 at 8:20 am
On the water topic…
I love it when the pandas put their head down and drink from their pools. They are so dainty. Their head stays motionless and just their tongue moves in and out.
It's nice at SDZ that there's narrators to tell the visitors what is going on. I used to live by the NZ and there was no one and people would be so confused with what was happening, especially when the pandas where drinking out of their pools. So I would explain.
I always thought it was so cute how they drank.
No wonder the Chinese call them bear-CATS. They drink like a cat does.
Joy
August 31st, 2008 at 8:33 am
On the OTHER topic of the week-end:
CONGRATULATIONS to ZA!!!
It was nice to be able to see the birth on pandacam. Too bad there was no sound, I would have liked to hear the sound from Lun Lun just before the birth they described. Maybe they'll have it on videos.
I'm blessed to have seen Tai Shan's birth (with sound) I must say… it was something I couldn't imagine if I hadn't seen it myself, even with all the times it was described to me. IMO, a panda birth is somethng everyone should see first hand.
I am glad we have a birth in the US this year. I was beginning to get depressed thinking we might go a year without all the new milestones to watch. And this little one brings such HOPE for the future!
So, many blessings to ZA, Lun Lun, and " baby Hope"
Love, Joy
August 31st, 2008 at 8:57 am
i got a question. since you are borrowing baiyun for 12 years on the contract from china, from 1996 to 2008, what will happen now that baiyun contract is over. is baiyun going to go home once zhenzhen is wean or is she gonna stay here under a different contract. oh and what happen to sulin?when will she go home? hopefully not soon.
August 31st, 2008 at 9:26 am
I want congratulate not only Lun Lun and the Atlanta Zoo's staff, but also all of researches, keepers, etc. in the world, who have been dedicating your lives to save the giant panda.
The new cub is a result of the great job you are doing!
Thank you, all of you!
August 31st, 2008 at 10:26 am
cute!
August 31st, 2008 at 11:04 am
As all panda fans are now well aware of we have a new cub at the AZ. They had the camera on LUN LUN starting a little after 7 pm Satursday evening and at 10:10 it pop out into the world. Mama seems to be taking very good care of it just hope and just pray it stay healthlyand grows like it's big sister Mei Lan.
August 31st, 2008 at 11:50 am
Hi! Just got on the SDZ pandacam to check out Bai and ZZ, and the cam is not holding the picture too well. It keeps flipping back and forth from the picture to color bars with LOS on the screen on Cam C5. Hope the IT guys can get it back online. Didn't see Bai and ZZ on the cam. Will check it out later on. Also went on the AZ website to see how Lun is doing with her new baby. She is really wrapped up around her baby, and I really have not seen a real good look at the baby panda yet. They do have a video up online for all of us to watch the actual birth of Lun's cub from last nite (Sat., 8/30). I just watched it, and that was so neat to watch Lun give birth and interact with her new baby that was sqealing as loud as it can sqeal! Then, she picked up the baby and wrapped herself around the cub to get it warm. The vid does have sound to it, too. As of this writing, Lun's cub is about 17 hours old. Lun still has not given birth to a twin yet, but there's still a few more hours to go before we all know whether it's just one cub or two cubs. We should have an idea of that by later on tonite.
Anyway, gonna go and get back on the AZ pandacam to see Lun and hopefully see her baby panda!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
PS: Thoughts and prayers go out to everyone, especially to all of the pandafans, in the Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, and Alabama gulf coast areas as they are facing a very dangerous hurricane that's coming their way. Not a good Labor Day weekend for them, but praying that they are safe and out of harm's way. Gustav is not a hurricane to take lightly at all!
August 31st, 2008 at 3:29 pm
They're beautiful even if a bit dusty at times.
August 31st, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Thank you, Ellie, for all of your informative posts. I look forward to each new post, because I know I will learn something new about pandas and their behavior.
What a wonderful day for panda lovers on the East coast! My husband and I could not believe how quickly Lun Lun picked up her new bundle of joy and was cuddling it. Pandas are such beautiful mothers. Since we missed seeing Zhen Zhen when we were in San Diego last Thanksgiving, my husband has suggested going to Atlanta next spring break. By then the youngest panda will be getting into all kinds of mischief. We did see gorgeous Su Lin (as a two year old) and handsome Gao Gao eating his bamboo last fall.
Must get back to the Atlanta panda cam to check on the latest addition to the panda family.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Yay! Lun Lun did it!
September 1st, 2008 at 12:15 am
Hi! I know that this is the 5th time I've written on this comment section, but I have a couple of updates to share with you all.
First up is more news about the latest China earthquake that was a 6.1 magnitude that hit Sichuan Province on Sat., 8/30 that was written by MSNBC News on Mon., 9/1/2008. More info has come up about the extent this quake has had in the area. The death toll is now up to 32 people with about 467 people injured and causing 152,000 more people to evacuate out of the area. The number of homes that were destroyed by this quake is now up to 258,000 homes that may have had some damage from the previous 2 quakes and aftershocks and could not stand another quake of this magnitude. Major bridges were damaged and 3 reservoirs now have cracks. The epicenter was located about 31 miles SE of Panzhinhua City in the SW corner of Sichuan Province. Rescue efforts are ongoing despite the rugged terrain and heavy rains. Volunteers are sending in 6,200 tents, 3,500 quilts, and 55,000 pounds of rice to the quake zone to help out the thousands that were left homeless after this latest quake. On Sunday alone, there were 300+ aftershocks that were felt in that area with the largest at 5.6 magnitude. Since the May 12 quake, there have been thousands of aftershocks along the Longmenshan fault that have been recorded by the USGS. There is still no word about Wolong Panda Center and how they are doing after this latest quake. The Chinese people in that region just did not need this at all, and this will make recovery and rebuilding efforts a lot more difficult for them.
Atlanta Zoo cub update from Sun., Aug. 31: Lun Lun is a great 2nd time mom. Keepers have spotted the cub on the pandacam, and they report that the cub looks and sounds strong & healthy. Lun is keeping her cub warm, clean, and fed. Still no sign of a 2nd cub, and the 24/7 watch continues. I have been watching Lun on the AZ pandacam off and on during the nite, and I have not seen the baby panda yet because Lun has her baby all wrapped up! There is a video up online on the AZ panda page for everyone to watch the actual birth of Lun's baby panda in case you all didn't get to see it when it happened over 24 hours ago.
Now, I'll shut it up for now. I will keep watching the AZ pandacam, tho! Oh yeah, I'll check in on Bai and ZZ on the SDZ pandacam, too! Gotta go and get to bed. Been watching the progress of Hurricane Gustav and the MDA Telethon on TV tonite. Pray for everybody along the Gulf coast as they wait out this cat 3 hurricane, and for the Chinese people that were victimized AGAIN by another earthquake.
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 1st, 2008 at 6:36 am
Moderator–I've been reading about more earthquakes and damage in Sichuan province. Is anyone from SDZ in touch with those remaining at Wolong? Is there more damage? Are the pandas and keepers OK?
September 1st, 2008 at 7:23 am
very interesting! polar bears love the water, have thick fur and have no trouble staying afloat! the pandas probably just don't care for the water as far as emerging goes and swimming! when you think about it, tigers love the water and swimming, but the rest of the big cats don't! who can figure? some people don't like the water and other people love it. not that I'm comparing animals and people ha ha!
just thinking out loud I guess! next week I finally get to visit the san diego zoo! all my favorites are there!
the pandas, the polar bears, and the gorillas. love the elephants too! everything about zoos are great, especially the great zoos! keep up all the wonderful things you do at san diego zoo, and thanks for all the up-dates and great cams! see you soon!!!!! can't wait…………………..
September 1st, 2008 at 8:07 am
Congratulations to Lun Lun and Yang Yang!!!! New cubbie at AZ!!!!
September 1st, 2008 at 9:11 am
Dear All:
There is a short video at the ZA site With Sound of Lun Lun and her new little cub. I think, one visits panda updates and there is a small photo of Lun Lun just as she gave birth. Click on the photo and you all will be able to hear the mighty squaking of the baby!
September 1st, 2008 at 11:08 am
Joy #49 – To watch Lun Lun giving birth with sound – click on " panda cub updates†at the AZ site. Then click on the small picture of Lun Lun. You will be pleasantly surprised to see and hear the actual birth. It is very touching and heartwarming. Keep the tissues nearby. Good Luck.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm
HI!! I've been busy monitoring alot of things over the last couple of days, you all! I've been on the AZ pandacam quite often to see Lun and baby panda, but she has not shown me the baby yet. She's all wrapped up keeping her little baby warm. AZ panda keepers have the pandacam on 24/7 with 5 minute limits, but just keep hitting yes to keep it going every 5 minutes. They also have the Mon., Sept. 1 update online for us to read, and it's fairly short. The keepers will probably do everyday updates about Lun and cub for quite sometime like they did with Mei Lan during her first year. So, we can look forward to alot of growth, development, and milestones that will coming with this cub, and the cub's name coming sometime in December after 100 days. They also have a video online for us to watch the actual birth of Lun's cub in case some of us didn't get the chance to see the birth live on 8/31. It's a good one, folks.
I have also been watching the MDA telethon off and on along with the news reports of the US Gulf coast being hit and battered by Hurricane Gustav. Be praying for everyone that live in those areas.
I hope that you all have read my update on the China earthquake in my earlier comment that's posted on this page. Please really be praying for the Chinese people because they did not need another disaster on top of the other quakes since May. I still have not had any updates from Pandas International about Wolong Panda Reserve Center on the status of the staff and pandas there since this latest quake hit. I sure do hope that they are alright and safe. This has got to be a nerve shattering deal for all of them in China especially after celebrating the 2008 Olympics for 2 weeks!
Well, gonna go back to the pandacams, and watching the telethon and the progress of Gustav on the Gulf coast. Oh by the way, all of us here in Florida are monitoring Hurricane Hanna that's in the Bahamas and a new depression #9 out in the Atlantic that will probably be named Tropical Storm Ike! We're not out of this yet, you all!
Love to Lun and baby panda,
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
Frances, NYC–read comment #58 that I wrote about the latest on the 6.1 China earthquake on the damage and destruction there. That should answer some of your questions. I am with you about Wolong Panda Center and their status right now, so please keep praying for them. Hopefully, we'll get an update from PI or someone close to Wolong to tell us how they are doing.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Congratulations to Lun Lun, the Atlanta Zoo staff and all who take such good care of our beloved pandas. This birth is a true highlight in a world where so many catastrophies have been happening. I have just watched Lun Lun giving birth and taking care of her baby and it brought tears of joy to my eyes. I guess all we pandaholics are over the moon!!!
September 1st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Nancy, about your question on all of the pandas at all 4 zoos that are on loan from China, I am wondering the same thing. I am very sure that the zoos will hold their pandas for quite a long time because of the chaos and turmoil that Sichuan Province is having with three major quakes and thousands of aftershocks, especially SDZ and NZ who have agreements with Wolong Panda Reserve Center. Atlanta and Memphis Zoos have agreements with Chengdu Panda Center. We'll have to wait and see what the directors of the 4 zoos and the directors of the 2 China panda centers will discuss about when the pandas on loan will be able to go back to China. It looks like that Wolong will be in rebuilding mode for up to 3 years in a safer area when they can get past these fault upheavals. Chengdu is in a safer area, but they are holding a large number of Wolong pandas right now, along with a large number of new cubs that were born this year. Now with Lun giving birth to her second cub, her stay at AZ will be another 2-3 more years. So, we will have to keep checking in with those 4 zoos to see what the decisions have been made about the adult pandas, Tai Shan, Mei Lan, and ZZ. We still can see them on the zoos' pandacams everyday until those decisions come in later on down the road. Hope this can answer your questions about that. You can always get in touch with SDZ or the other zoos about their plans for their pandas if you have any more questions.
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to say this to everybody at SDZ, WAP, and all of you pandafans;
HAPPY LABOR DAY!!!! Hope everyone had a very nice day today with your families and friends! Still keep the Gulf Coast people in your prayers that are still having to deal with Hurricane Gustav because their Labor Day plans got dismantled because of that storm!
Have a great day, you all!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 1st, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Do a lot of praying, pandafans! Something happened at Atlanta Zoo about Lun and her cub. Marilyn just emailed me to let me know that the cub was not very active, and that Lun just left it on the den floor, then the keepers picked it up to examine it. No news from the AZ panda keepers yet on what happened, but I will keep checking the AZ panda page often until I get word from them on the status of the baby panda. PRAY!!!!!! The last time I checked the AZ pandacam about an hour ago, everything looked normal with Lun laying down on her side with her baby panda all wrapped up. Nothing unusual then.
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 1st, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I was just on the AZ website and they now have the cam on Yang Yang and have taken the cub away from Lun Lun and put it in an incubator. I sure hope and pray nothing is going on with the new cub and everything will be ok it would terrible to loose another one. Let all say a pray for Lun Lun, her cub and the great staff at the AZ that everything turns out fine.
September 1st, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Mon., 9/1, 8pm: Ok, pandafans. I have just gotten off the AZ website's panda page, and they have written the latest news about Lun Lun and her cub.
AZ Update, Mon., Sept. 1, 2008, 6:30pm: Based on the behavior of Lun Lun and her newborn cub, the AZ panda keepers, vets, and a colleague from Chengdu, China, have decided to put the cub in an incubator for closer monitoring and observations. They will continue to work diligently to ensure that Lun and her cub receive the best care and treatment possible. They will give updates when they have more news.
After a couple of hours offline, the cam is back on and showing Yang Yang (the daddy) in the dayroom laying down on the floor sleeping. The room is a little bit dark because they just turned out some of the lights. Needless to say, people, the AZ panda staff has had a roller coaster ride today, and it started out so well. Please keep praying for them, for Lun Lun, and for her cub. Will probably have a new update about the cub sometime tomorrow (Tues., 9/2/2008).
That's all I have for now about Lun and cub.
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 1st, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Congrats Lun Lun. However, I don't know if the cub is doing well. The staff at Atlanta Zoo placed the cub in an incubator based off " behavior of Lun Lun and the cub." This sounds ominous.
September 1st, 2008 at 6:12 pm
the panda cam in atlanta is off line. the cub is in an incubator….i hope all goes well.
September 1st, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Lun Lun's cub moved to incubator based on some behaviors by the mom and baby.
Rejection or the 2o. one is coming?
Lun Lun was caring her cub keeping it warm, nursing as a great mom.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Ut-Oh..I am very worried about Lun Lun's cubbie. They now have it in an incubator. I did see something strange happen that I had never seen before. Before I guess would be with BaiYun's babies. Lun Lun somehow let the baby slip to the floor and and she had to get up and walk away, turn around and look for it, than walked over and scooped it back up. I never saw Bai Yun ever let a cub anywhere near the floor for weeks. I thought maybe she had fallen asleep deeper than usual and forgot about the cub and it slipped or something. It was vigorous while it was on the floor of the den, seemed Ok to me..but then I'm not a Vet. Let's hope this cub is OK…say a panda prayer.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Panda lovers, I just read the latest update (Sept. 1st) on the AZ panda page and apparently, based on the behavior of Lun Lun and the cub, AZ's China consultant and the zoo's animal management decided to move Lun Lun's new cub to an incubator so they can monitor it more closely - oh man, I hope nothing's wrong with the little one. Everyone, pray for the new cub. Just send it all the positive vibes you can so it thrives and grows up to be a healthy and enjoyable giant panda.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:52 pm
AZ update #2 on Mon., 9/1, 9:30pm: AZ panda staff, vets, and Chengdu representative are still watching Lun's cub very carefully, making sure that the cub has the best care and treatment. They will have another update about the cub and Lun at around 10am EDT tomorrow morning (Tues., 9/2), or sooner if events warrant. Will give the info to you as soon as I get up and check the AZ panda page. The pandacam is definitely off until 10am EDT tomorrow. The cam was on the daddy, Yang Yang, for at least a half an hour before they shut down the cam for the nite. Let's all hope and pray for the best for the cub and for Lun Lun!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 1st, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Oh dear. I am worried about Lun Lun's baby. They have put the baby in an incubator. For some reason, the baby was not responding as well as they thought. They also took down the pandacam until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. Perhaps the keepers at SDZ have some information they can share with us?
September 1st, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Hello, it's me again. Further to my post on the AZ cub being moved to an incubator. I just viewed a couple of videos on youtube from Sept. 1st and I noticed some unusal things. First of all, Lun Lun actually left the cub on its own today (only the second day after it was born). I don't recall her doing this with Mei. It seemed like days before Lun left Mei. She wasn't away very long; however, when she returned to the cub, it seemed she didn't know what to do with it - she pawed at it and stared at it before she finally picked it up again. Of course, I couldn't hear any sounds. I signed on to ajc dot com and there was an article about the cub but it did not say why the zoo decided on the cub's transfer to the incubator. I sure hope we get some encouraging news tomorrow. Say your prayers for Lun and her cub, everyone.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 am
As many of you have already heard, Lun Lun's cub is taken to the incubator tonight (Sunday). Let's all pray the little baby will be fine!
It just makes all the U.S. cubs extra precious!
P.S. Zoo Atlanta's birthing video has sound! It's really something to watch the whole delivery with sound! You can actually hear the baby hit the floor if you listen closely!
I enjoy reading SDZ blogs a lot. Every entry is so informative. Thank you!
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 am
Our thoughts and prayers are with Zoo Atlanta as they care for the new little cubbie in the incubator. They said they will have more news tomorrow (hopefully) around 10:00 a.m. East Coast time.
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:23 am
Just gone to watch Lun Lun and her cub and discovered that the cub has been put in an incubator and the cam switched off until 10am Tuesday. Oh dear, I hope the little one is going to be alright. Fingers crossed for good news.
September 2nd, 2008 at 5:15 am
I'm sure everyone is aware that Lun Lun's cub is being taken care of in an incubator. Let's all of us send the biggest prayers to Lun Lun and her cub so that she can once again hold her and take care of her as only a panda mother can do. I'm trying not to cry.
Thanks to all Lun Lun and cubbie's care takers. I wish you much luck and success.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 am
Okay - this is a red alert! Panda lovers everywhere band together and send collective prayers to the newborn cub in Atlanta. The website states the cubs condition is " guarded" . It appears that, for some reason yet to be determined, Lun experienced a reduction in milk production. The cub is in an incubator and staff are hand-feeding it with formula and milk from Lun Lun. My stomach is just in knots, having gone from elation over the birth to grave concern for the health and survival of the tiny cub. Prayers everyone!!
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 am
Update from AZ. THe cub was put into an incubator yesterday as a precaution. Regualr updates are being provided on ZA website - panda cam is currently focusing on the other 2 pandas…American and Chinese vets are on duty and monitoring closely!
Everyone keep Lun and cubbie in your prayers…..strength in numbers!!!
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:53 am
Just read about AZ new baby panda being in an incubator. How sad!! Prayers going out to AZ staff, Lun Lun and baby.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:40 am
Sorry to hear ZA cub is in " guarded" condition. However, with the experienced expert on hand from Chengdu, they will do everything possible to give it the extra support it needs to survive. They hope to get it back with Lun Lun ASAP, and are giving both mother and cub antibiotics as a pre-caution. Since all of the cubs at NZP born to Ling Ling and Hsing Hsing died from bacterial infections in the first few days after birth, these pre-cautions are necessary and prudent. Vet medicine has come a long way in the past 30 years and these cubs now have a great chance of surviving due to the intervention of their well trained keepers and vet staff.
Congratulations and Best wishes Lun Lun and Yang Yang, and big sister Mei Lan!
We all remember the tense moments for the first year in Hua Mei, Mei Sheng, Su Lin, Zhen Zhen, and Tai Shan's lives. This is the reason that the Chinese traditionally don't name a cub until it is 100 days old.
With approximately 19-20 cubs born around the world this year it is a great year, but each one has its own risks and needs extra attention from panda mother and keepers to be sure it survives.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Are you guys concerned about Lun Lun's baby?
The baby born in a Japanese zoo died three days after birth.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:52 am
So many thoughts and prayers for our little cubbie!!!!!!!!
Be strong little one.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:53 am
Hi, everyone! Got some good news about Lun's cub from Atlanta Zoo this morning. AZ panda keepers have written an update for today, Tues., 9/2/2008, 10am EDT. Cub is still in the incubator and being hand fed with Lun's milk and panda formula. They are stating the cub's condition as guarded and doing everything possible to keep it alive and going. Lun is currently off exhibit and off cam for now, and they are hoping that when the cub is doing better, they will reintroduce the cub back with Lun. Both the cub and Lun are receiving antibiotics as a precaution. The vets are trying to determine if Lun's milk production decreased at the time the cub showed the strange behavior on Monday nite, but they were able to obtain some milk from her today. So, the mystery as to the cub's decline is still being worked on. The AZ pandacam is currently back on from 10am-5pm EDT with Yang Yang and Mei Lan sharing the spotlight for now. AZ keepers are planning on regular updates about Lun and her cub everyday. So, the cub is alive and drinking the formula/milk, and wrapped up in a nice warm blanket in the incubator. I'm sure that the next several hours are going to be critical as to how well the cub does. Keep on praying for Lun and her cub, ok? They'll be needing that from all of us pandafans! There is a video of one of the vets feeding the cub in the incubator. The cub is adorable and looks like it is drinking the milk pretty well. It's just so sad that the cub can't be with the mom right now. The cub is at a good weight for being 3 days old. The rep from Chengdu, China, has been with the AZ panda staff and vets' side since the beginning of this and offering very valuable advice on handling this situation.
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 am
keep those prayers coming, along with the vets and experts from China the new cubbie stands a good chance for survival, I watched the video of the little one being fed a bottle and it's appetite seems good and it's looks like it want's to push it's front legs. I wish all the best to everyone at ZA for all you are doing to ensure the survival of the cub and to your Chinese counterparts also Thank You
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
Widget #74: When you saw the cub on the floor, did the keepers come and take the cub at that time? I watched as late as I could, but apparently I went to bed before that happened. I had seen the baby's head earlier in the day, and it seemed to be ok. I really hope they can determine the problem with Lun Lun's milk, and that the cub can be re-introduced to its mother. Hopefully, the personnel from Chengdu has experience with these situations, and knows exactly what to do. These panda babies are so fragile at birth, until they develope enough to survive. God, please be with the vets, keepers, the cub and Lun Lun. May all be well.
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 am
As this is a trying time for all panda lovers, thanks so much to SDZ for providing us a means to 'vent'. We are all hopeful than the cubbie is strong and can hang in there until the problem abates…Panda prayers!
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 am
Dianne in Texas ,
As long as the baby is disease-free, hand-rearing in an incubator should not be a major problem. It happens all the time in Chinese zoos, especially when a panda mother gives birth to twins.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 am
Diane #91 in Texas…no..the keepers did not go in at that time. It happened so quickly and I think it was the beginning of the cub's decline. Somehow Lun knew the cub wasn't 'right' and seemed agitated in disposition(Lun Lun). She scooped it back up, but after that she seemed to not be able to find a comfortable position to lay. She must have known something wasn't right with the cub, and a couple hours later, walked away from it completely. All animal mothers know when something isn't right with their young, and thank goodness the Vets and staff were right there to intervene. Panda prayers everyone…
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
One of the news outlets here in Atlanta referred to the " male cub" . Let's keep up the prayers for the little guy in addition to prayers for those affected by the hurricanes.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
Also, thanks to SDZ for allowing us to hijack this blog and post messages that don't pertain to Of Pandas and Water.
Moderator's note: Our pleasure–there are always exceptions to our rules! We do encourage panda fans to send their thoughts and wishes directly to Zoo Atlanta so their staff can see the level of care and concern expressed by all of you.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 am
First off, let me thank the SDZ for providing what Francie #92 described as a means to " vent" . We so appreciate it.
I was just on the Atlantic Journal site and it gave some facts that we (or at least I had not heard) were not aware of. They state the cub is a male, and that Lun Lun put him down twice and when they removed him he was hypothermic and dehydrated. He has responded well to the feedings and they hope to reintroduce him to Lun Lun if all goes as planned around 1:00 today.
Let's all keep our prayers headed Atlanta way for the vets, keepers and most especially Lun Lun and our newest baby.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
WSBTV reports that the cub is dehydrated. There is a link to the story on cnn's site.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
#91 Dianne in Texas and #94 Widget - further to my description (#78) of what I saw on the video: before Lun Lun left the cub on the den floor, I noticed someone's hand holding a saucer in front of Lun who, at first, seemed reluctant to lick it, but she did eventually. She then sat down briefly, and when she got up, I saw the cub on the concrete floor of the den, which is when I got concerned because it was so out of character for a new panda mom. Lun wasn't gone for long, but while she was gone, I saw a hand come through the bars and spread out some of the hay/bamboo (?) on the floor. Then the hand picked up the cub and turned it over as if to look at its belly, then the hand turned the cub over and placed him on the hay/bamboo. The cub did not move very much, but it was a nice pink color. Then when Lun Lun returned, she looked at the cub and then through the window bars, then back at the cub. Then she poked the cub with her paw for a few seconds before she finally picked the little one up with her mouth and sit down. At this point the video ended. I hope this answers some of your questions. As of now, I don't see any more updates from ZA, so I'm holding on that no news is good news. Continue to pray for the situation, especially for the cub and Lun Lun, as well as the team that is working hard to turn things around. Let's hope for brighter news in a while.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Moderator: has anyone from AZ contacted SDZ about the current situation with Lun Lun's cub? Since these animals are extremely rare and I know the SDZ has a lot of experience, I was wondering if all the " experts" had been consulted, both here and abroad?
Like the previous poster said, thanks for letting us discuss this situation.
Moderator's note: The panda team at the San Diego Zoo works with all other zoos that have pandas in the U.S. to share experience and information. We are confident that the team at Zoo Atlanta is experienced and knowledgeable and will do everything to assist their newborn panda cub and mother.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
we have all seen the hand raised cubs in china. at what point would a female panda not accept a hand raised cub? days? weeks? months? would her milk dry up?
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
What a great play session with Bai and Little Missy at 1:10pm today, lost the cam feed though. I see Bai sitting muching on her bamboo and think where is Missy??, then next thing I see is her come over the limb of the tree on to Mom's head.. Too cute.
I swear I have logged on the ZA's site every 15 minutes hoping for an update on Lun and her cubbie. I was away for the weekend, and was thrilled when I logged on and saw that a cub had been born. We all know that this new little cub is getting the best possible care and let's hope that Lun is doing ok too, and that Mom and baby will be together soon.
I too wonder if Lun sensed something was wrong with her cub? I am so happy that the Vets stepped in as quick as they did. I also would like to thank the SDZ moderator as I have found most of my info on this blog.
Postive thoughts everyone
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
While we send our best wishes and hopes to Atlanta for the survival of the new cub we are sooo lucky to see the amazing play session between Bai Yun and Zhen Zhen this afternoon. Thank you, SDZ, for the beautiful images!
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Dear Bai and Z, Thank you so much for all the entertainment this afternoon. It was so much fun to see you wrestling and playing, then taking a break to splash in the pool. A delightful distraction from the worry over your new cuzzin in Atlanta. Blessings to all the pandas.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Some good news for right now anyway. The cub is back with his mother Lun Lun and things seem to be doing ok. They vets found no problems with the cub and said it had gain a little wieght in the last 19 hours. OH yes Mei Lan has a little brother, Mei Lan 2nd birthday is this Saturday. So keep the prayers coming that things are all up hill from now on.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Thank God….little baby panda was re-introduced to Mama successfully! And yes….it's a boy!!!
Pandalovers everywhere are so grateful to the vigilant keepers who helped Lun and the baby so quickly and who will continue to closely monitor the situation. Fingers crossed and many prayers that things will go smoothly now for Mama and Baby Boy Butterstick.
Thanks, SDZ, for allowing us to " congregate" here!
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pm
by the by zoo san diego, i just love the various blogs and appreciate the time your staff takes in order to keep us updated. i try and check them out everyday as they are always a highlight for me..i generally dont comment but i read them all.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pm
The AZ is reporting that the cub has been returned to " his" mother after a 19-hour separation and that the reintroduction went well!
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Mei Lan's little " brother" was successfully reintroduced to Lun Lun
Thank you for the great care!
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Evening update from Atlanta!
Cub reintroduced to Lun Lun, and everything seems to be going well. Chinese keeper was able to determine that the cub is a male!
Lun Lun was receptive to the reintroduction. Praying that the good news keeps up.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Hello panda lovers. Whew!! We can breathe a sigh of relief for now - the AZ cub was successfully re-introduced to Lun Lun earlier this afternoon. Go to the Zoo Atlanta site and read the update. It is very encouraging. Yay!!
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Lun Lun is back with her cub. It's a boy! Reported by CNN.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Cubbie is back with Mom! Thank goodness…keep the cards and letters going to Atlanta. Thanks again for SDZ for letting us 'talk' about events in Atlanta here. Number 99 pandafan..yes, I saw that happen too. However what I was describing happened about 2 hours before the cub was taken by staff. This cub was going downhill earlier in the afternoon. Glad its back with Mom now. I hope all goes well for Lun and cub, who they say is a boy. Great news!
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I just read on the website of WGCL (Atlanta TV station) that the baby has been returned to Lun Lun after 19 hours. Can someone else read it and tell me if the cub is still with Lun? It states the cub was examined after the return, and " he" had gained a little weight. (But it also states that Lun likely stopped producing milk?) Sounds encouraging, at least what I got out of it.
September 2nd, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Just found another link to a story that implies that the cub is back with Lun, but may be examined at different times to insure everything is OK! I'm sure we'll know more soon. Sorry for the rambling!
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Hi! Got some great news for pandafan and everybody about Lun's cub. AZ panda keepers have written a new update for 9/2 at 5pm EDT today (Tues.). They report that after 19 hours of seperation from momma Lun, the keepers have successfully reintroduced the cub back to mom at 1:10pm EDT today, and it coincided with the cub's scheduled feeding and strong nursing instinct. Lun showed immediate interest in her cub, then picked it up and cradled her baby panda. The cub also has strong vocals which was good news, and Lun was attentive to the cub's vocals. The keepers examined the cub again at 4:30pm EDT, and saw that it has gained some weight, which is what they were looking for. Also, while the cub was in the nursery, the panda expert from Chengdu was able to look at the cub and determine the gender—IT'S A BOY!!! Mei Lan has a little brother! (Now we can write and say HE instead of it! I was hoping that Lun would have a boy this time around!) Given the events of yesterday (Mon.), the panda staff and vets will stay extra vigilant in watching Lun and her cub, and will probably seperate the cub from mom every so often for checkups to make sure that everything is going in the right direction. The pandacam is off for the nite, but I'm hoping that they will get back on the 24/7 schedule showing Lun and cub in the next couple of days. Along with the update is a nice picture of Lun holding her baby panda boy for the first time in 20 hours. AZ said that they have appreciated all the calls of concern and prayers from everybody that have been interested in how the cub is doing. New update will be online tomorrow morning (Wed.), and there will be regular everyday updates for awhile.
Got on the SDZ cam off and on all day, and unless I missed it, the cam has been on Gao Gao all day just munching away! The look of contentment!! WOW! Would love to have that in our lives, right?
Please continue to pray for Lun and her baby's continued improvement and bonding! It's been a little bit of a rough start for this little tyke, but it looks like he'll pull thru this thanks to the wonderful care and attention the AZ keepers and vets gave this cub. They and the cub are the winners of this round!
Well, gonna go and eat some dinner. Will write back later. When you get on the Atlanta Zoo website, click on the pandacam at the top of the page, then click on cub updates to read all of the latest updates about Lun's new baby panda along with the pics and videos.
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Just when we think all is well with Lun Lun & her new bundle of joy…or should I say " boy" , as was confirmed on the latest ZA update, we are all thrown into a state of panic for the little one, after Lun's apparent 'rejection' of it.
Thank goodness the chinese vet is there to assist ZA, since raising the cubs in an incubator is not unusual for them when twin births occur. The video on the ZA update page of the baby being fed is so sweet; he seems vigorous and healthy, so let's hope he keeps up with his recovery, and that Lun Lun is able to take charge of his care, which we know she can do so well…just look at beautiful Lani, now almost 2 years old!
Animal instincts are incredible; Lun Lun knew something was not right, but fortunately, the ZA staff, in monitoring the den, was able to intervene and help the baby through this crisis, whatever it turns out to be.
As concerned as we all are right now, we certainly take comfort in knowing that the wonderful staff at ZA is doing everything it possibly can in helping this darling little boy survive. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts, as every panda cub born is precious and so important to the survival of it's species.
Please send panda prayers, everyone, now more than ever!
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Fascinating article. I've watched Su Lin play in the water and she is like a two year old child in her enjoyment. She is no doubt dirtier than most children but I remember well how dirty we'd get playing with mud pies and such. As adults we tend to forget how dirty we would get. We just didn't care about the dirt of course whereas for the panda there are reasons to let it stay as there are with many animals. Elephants love water but they also love the mud. It is protection for many things.
Thanks for the informative piece.
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Encouraging news! Still keeping with the positive thoughts and prayers! Be strong little guy.
September 2nd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I just read the ZA update, after being off line for a few hours. I am so elated to know Mom and baby are back together, praying this is a permanent condition. The expertise of the nursery experts from China is amazing. Thank goodness they were there. And YeeeHaaa…..it's a boy! Cigar anyone? But I'm still praying for Mom and son, and for strength for their guardians.
September 2nd, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Re Mod's note in #97: I would like to send good wishes, good thoughts, good vibes directly to those wonderful people at Zoo Atlanta, but don't quite see the way on their website. Under " Contact Us" , there doesn't seem to be an appropriate address. Has anyone sent a message directly to them? What did you do?
And, all good thoughts to Lun Lun, her little one, and especially that fabulous staff! I was (" guardedly" ) happy to read their latest update.
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:31 pm
What a relief that Bright Future is back with HIS mom Lun Lun. This is still a critical time for the lad but it looks like he's made it past one of many hurdles.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:18 pm
#121 Mary from SF: I wrote ZA right away as soon as the cub was born. I just went on the Contact Us page and clicked on the email address for General Information. I also copied their media relations people. I did not hear back from them, but I wasn't expecting to. So, I'm trusting that they got my message.
September 2nd, 2008 at 8:51 pm
To Mary in SF: You can write to Zoo Atlanta by emailing them at info@zooatlanta.org
Please keep prayers going for Lun and her little boy! Thanks for all the concerns for out newest cubbie in Atlanta!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 am
Tony De #122 - I love the nickname Bright Future and continue to pray the cub can live up to it. I'm so thankful Chengdu staff are there to assist. I'll probably not get as much work done today as I check in frequently at the ZA website for updates. I hate it when my job interferes with my life
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:30 am
Mary from SF#121 I sent a message directly to Zoo Atlanta under contact us ….org. and can only hope that they will be receiving it somehow. I, too, was so relieved to learn that the little panda boy seems to be doing fine again and could be re-introduced to his mother Lun Lun who will be taking good care of him. However, we still need panda prayers for the time being. Thank you all for keeping us updated on all the events happening in the panda world.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:44 am
So happy to hear the Mei Lan has a HEALTHY little BROTHER! Now we can once again compare how male cubs relate to their moms and how they are raised. Will he be a mommas boy like Mei Sheng and Tai Shan? Will Lun Lun be overly protective of him like she was with Mei Lan, or possibly even more so because of their early separation??? We will joyfully wait and see. It is with more tears that I read of the successful reintroduction of mom and cub.
Now we know how infinitely wise it is for the US zoos to bring their experienced Chinese colleagues to be present for the birth of the cubs. As I recall they brought a Chinese vet here from Chengdu when Mei Lan was born. From what they said either there is one here now, or they were conversing by phone/internet quite a bit before they separated mom and cub.
I remember that the Chinese expert wept with joy when Lun Lun immediately picked up Mei Lan because Lun Lun's mother originally ignored her after birth. I imagine they were apprehensive this time too when Lun took a few seconds to decide to pick up her wiggly son. But, the happy story now is that she has been reunited and is once again caring for her newborn cub and cuddling and feeding it.
I am certain that the keepers at NZP have bittersweet experience watching as they wish that the kongs that Mei Xiang was craddling two weeks ago were a cub and not practice.
Meanwhile we watch ZZ grow very quickly, and enjoy her own nursing sessions with her mom when she stops long enough for a good nourishing meal.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:00 am
Still looking pretty optimistic for Bright Future. This morning's update from ZA indicate Bright Future is gaining weight (128g), and vitals are about where they should be for a growning panda boy. Again this is the most critical time for a panda infant. But the staff at ZA are spot on. And I'm sure the great people at San Diego, Memphis, National Zoo, and our Chinese colleagues at Wolong and Chengdu are standing by to offer any assistance if called upon.
Hang in there little buddy! Your species have big plans for you!
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:07 am
AZ is reporting that as of 8:00 this morning, Lun Lun and cub are doing exceptionally well. The staff have removed Mr. Cubbie twice and he has increased his weight. " We" are not out of the woods yet, but this is great news! Lun Lun is continuing to be a great Panda Mother and is tolerating the removal of her cub (she must know it's for his good). Thanks to all at AZ for their diligence with Lun Lun and Mr. Cubbie's care.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:08 am
Mary#122, I sent messages to the webmaster their web address is listed on the contact us page.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:50 am
Mary #121 I just sent a message to them yesterday using the webmaster's email address. I'm sure they passed the message on to the staff to let them know their fans are praying for them. Also there's a new message on the AZ site this morning stating everything is still going well with the cub and Lun Lun. The little guy is gaining weight each time they check him so keep those prays coming.
I see Bai and little Miss ZZ are early riser at 6:30 SD time they were both up and on the go. But not me at that time EDT I'm still sawing logs. lol
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:56 am
Good news about Lun Lun's little boy. Sending lots and lots of love and cuddles to him and his Mum.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:37 am
What a wonderful morning, the sun is shining here in Vancouver, Gao is looking great as always, and our newest little boy cubbie is doing well with his Mom Lun Lun…..
#121 Mary, I have sent messages to the ZA Panda Staff just through the general email, it does get to them as I have received replies. I can only imagine all the messages they are receiving right now.
Have a marvelous day Panda watching everyone!!!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:48 am
Hi! Just got up! Got on AZ's panda page to read the new update for Wed., 9/3 about Lun Lun's and her cub's progress. The cub is doing remarkably well gaining an impressive 7% of his body weight during the 18 hours that he's been back with his mom, Lun. The staff has taken the cub out twice last nite and once very early this morning for regular checks to make sure that he is gaining his weight and going in the right direction. Lun has been a great mom and has not missed a beat in caring for her cub. She doesn't mind too much when the keepers take the cub from her for the quick checkups. Apparently, she probably knows that they are helping her make sure that her baby boy is staying healthy. They will probably keep doing the checkups but start increasing the time between the checkups as they go along. The AZ panda staff are still very vigilant, a little bit on edge, and watchful over the cub, and feel that they won't really relax for at least a few more weeks. They still haven't figured out what made the cub go downhill on Monday afternoon, and they don't think they will be able to figure that out for now. They are just happy that the cub is nursing well from momma Lun, and that Lun is taking very good care of him. May see another update later on today.about the progress of Lun and her baby panda. AZ's pandacam is on showing Mei Lan and Yang Yang.
Got on the SDZ cam and saw our wonderful muncher, Gao eating his boo and leaving his usual mess on his stomach! Oh yeah, back to the article about pandas and water, I've seen my share of brown buffed panda rear ends from SDZ, NZ, AZ, and MZ! It looks like the dirty rear ends are stained brown for good, doesn't it? Especially the baby pandas that have their very soft white rear ends, then they slowly get that dirty brown color as they sit down longer and get older! It's funny how these transformations take place with these gorgeous bears!
Keep the prayers coming for Lun and her cub, and the AZ panda staff and vets, you all! It's working!!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:54 am
Thank you, Ellie, for a very interesting discussion of pandas and water. Your description and the photo of Su Lin brought back many happy memories of when that beautiful girl had her " muddy day" adventures and the many times we saw Bai Yun trying to clean Su after her outdoor escapades.
I must add my thanks to SDZ for letting us panda lovers vent about the new ZA cub. It was so thrilling to hear of his birth and then so frightening to read about the problems. I know he's not completely out of danger yet, but it sounds very encouraging. It reminded me once again how very vulnerable these precious animals are. Talk about " pandas and water" –every time I read about the cub's condition, I started to tear up. So it was very comforting to read the posts from other concerned panda people. Thanks for allowing us this forum.
And, finally, I have to say again how wonderfully clear the pandacam pictures are. Sometimes looking at close-up shots, I feel I can see every hair on their furry little bodies.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:56 am
Me again! In case you all are interested in the weight of Lun Lun's cub, he weighed 121 grams during the time he was in the incubator, and 128 grams as of today, Wed., 9/3. Hopefully the AZ panda keepers will let us know what his new weight is when they write the new update. They said that these weights are good for a panda cub his age. The cub is 4 days old today. More later on!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:30 am
Thanks to everyone for the advice about emailing Zoo Atlanta! I will do so when I get home from work!
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 am
As Zhen Zhen will always be Miss Fuzzy Butt to me, I have been calling the new little boy in ZA " Rocky" …as he seems very determined, and he got off to a rocky start! Another day of holding our breath, I can only imagine what it's like for the vets & keepers going w/o rest and under such stress, kudos to them and all the Panda people, hopefully they are turning the corner on a scary situation. More Panda Prayers!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Another pair of cubs was born in Chengdu Research Base of Giant Panda Breeding on September 2 morning.
This time it's the five- year old prototype panda of the " Fuwa" Jingjing, one of the Mascots of the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games, become the mother.
The panda named " Kangkang" (also " Fuwa" ) delivered a twins respectively on the night of Sep. 1 and the morning of Sep. 2.
The second cub weighed only 40 grams on the birth, and become the lightest newborn panda cub in the history of the artificial breeding of captive giant pandas in the world.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Maybe I missed Zhen Zhen's introduction to water. I know she had a blast with the snow on Snow Day, but how has she responded to the pond? Seems like Su Lin was not too keen on it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
ZA posted their 5pm update on the young lad. Weight looks good (134gs) and vitals seem to be nominal. Bright Future and his mom are still gettting anti-biotics though the staff there still aren't sure what caused the lad's decline a few days ago. I'm a member of Zoo Atlanta so I'm going to try to make my " Panda Pilgrimage" to Zoo Atlanta in February hopefully.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Wouldn't it be wonderful, if Lun Lun and her brave little son, could know how many souls are praying for them, and how many hearts are aching and loving both of them. I think I'm going to be calling this little guy…………
Brave Heart. (Not original, but fitting!)
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:10 pm