More Questions Answered…
Posted at 7:59 am September 5, 2005 by Suzanne HallIn answer to some of your questions…
…when the twin swapping procedure takes places, the Chinese staff have two options: wait for mom to put her cub down when she goes for a drink or food, OR try to coax her into letting them take the cub she is holding right out of her arms (some females are gentle enough to let them do that). Then they remove the cub from the room. They then bring in the nursery reared cub, place it on the ground, and she immediately picks it up and tends to it.
…we can't say for certain that the female knows it's a different cub, but I am sure she can tell that there are different smells associated with it. The odors from human contact in the nursery (despite the staff's use of gloves) must rub off to some degree. We know from our research that pandas can identify other pandas of different ages and variable reproductive status by smell, and their use of scent marking to communicate reveals that their sense of smell is important to them (which is true of all bears). So it's a safe bet that a female can tell this isn't the cub she was just holding… but it doesn't seem to matter, as they always seem to get right back into the business of mothering as soon as the nursery cub is presented to them!
…They do seem to respond well to the sound of a baby crying. I have even observed a female resting quietly with her cub when a cub in the next room over began to wail. The mother of the contented cub sat up suddenly, attuned to the sound of the distant infant, and the female seemed worried and a bit agitated until that other cub calmed down. All the while, her own cub slept peacefully at her feet.
…as far as whether or not Bai Yun would recognize her past offspring: I think she might, but not in the way you might expect. She may recognize them as familiar, but she doesn't have her heartstrings plucked by them anymore. Not long after completion of the weaning process with Hua Mei, Bai Yun encountered her first daughter across a tunnel fence. She barked and lunged at Hua Mei! Once the weaning process was over, Bai Yun no longer wanted to share her space with Mei, and preferred her solitary lifestyle. If you think about it, this makes sense… female pandas can give birth every two years in the wild, and as intensive as rearing a newborn cub is, it isn't helpful to have a playful two year old climbing all over you in the process.
Suzanne Hall is the panda research technician for the San Diego Zoo's Office of Giant Panda Conservation.
View Bai Yun and her cub on Panda Cam
See our slideshow images of the third exam
See video of the cub's third exam
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September 5th, 2005 at 9:04 am
Thank you, Suzanne, for this information. It sounds as though a mother panda's instinct is so acute, that one that has lost a cub might adopt another cub and care for it. Has this happened in Wolong? Would it matter that the cub was a different sex? I so look forward to your observations and knowledge. These bears are fascinating–and beautiful!
September 5th, 2005 at 9:24 am
Thanks, Suzanne. This weblog is fabulous. I'm sure all panda fans have similar questions and I, for one, really appreciate getting answers. There's nothing so annoying as not knowing! It is a little sad to know Bai Yun growled at Hua Mei, but we do have a tendency to anthropomorphize our favourite animals and forget that nature's ways aren't our ways. At the same time, it is wonderful to know a nursing female responds to the cries of cubs other than her own. I have always referred to the gut-level protect-the-young feeling as " the mother bear instinct" and I know it is very real. Thanks for sharing with us.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:41 am
just like us human moms
September 5th, 2005 at 10:01 am
Thanks for some great insight! I have another (perhaps indelicate?) question regarding the newborn cubs' " going potty." I understand the mother licks their bottoms to stimulate elimination. Two-part question…At what age is the cub able to " potty" without this procedure, and how do you keep the den so clean?? I have never seen any " wet spots" or droppings in the den. Where does it go? Sorry if this is awkward, but the whole birthing and nurturing process of pandas is so interesting and wonderful, and this is just another aspect of that process. Thanks in advance, and keep up the excellent work. It is truly appreciated!
September 5th, 2005 at 10:20 am
I am a little curious about the social structures of pandas. Are pandas mainly a matriarchal society?
September 5th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
I watch everyday. Is there any time that mama bear will carry her baby out of den? Paula, Upland, Ca
September 5th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
Seems a panda mom will take care of other cubs even if it is not her baby. What a kindly & gentle creature it is! It's great to view the panda cam everyday & read the blog. So many people are panda lovers & sure I'm one of them. You all are doing a great job, envy you can see those adorable pandas everyday. I really want to go to the panda nursery in Wolong sometimes later, it will be such fun to see baby pandas are playing together. Hope there can be more pandas in San Diego Zoo.
September 5th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
In the National Zoo's panda webblog today, they've informed us that the keeper managed to obtain a small amount of milk from the mother panda. Do you know if this procedure was done under tranquilization of the mother panda? If it wasn't, then wouldn't it be quite life-endangering to the keeper since the giant panda is still considered a wild animal and it would certainly feel " threatened" if approached by a human being for its milk? I'm sure Ms. Hawk will be kind enough to share her personal experiences with us. Thanks alot, Panda Crew, for the daily Blogs and the pics.
September 5th, 2005 at 10:14 pm
She is so gentle and caring and it really just warms my heart watching how she and baby interact.
September 6th, 2005 at 6:29 am
Having bred dogs in the past, I can tell you that the momma animal will lick the little one to stimulate it to go potty. At the same time she will clean it up by swallowing it. Pretty gross I know, but that's nature for you!
September 6th, 2005 at 6:59 am
Once again, thank you for all of the information. After wondering for some time how big Mum was at this stage as compared to babygirl, yesterday I got my answer. Babygirl was lying near the head of Mum, wow !! She looked to be about the length of Mum's jaw. Such a gentle giant with such a precious gift to show to us all. This is all such a big part of my day now and I am truly grateful to all of you who make it possible.
Valerie Warburton - UK.
September 6th, 2005 at 7:20 am
I really appreciate the panda cam! It is really interesting to watch the little one develop. My question — panda cubs have tails, but it appears adults do not. What happens? And when?
September 6th, 2005 at 8:28 am
Thank you for the wonderful blog you wrote Suzanne. I just have a follow up question? You say Bai Yun lunged at Hua Mei? I remember Dr. Lindburg made a similar comment once but he said Bai Yun barked to tell Hua Mei to go on her way. It seems so different than the behavior of Gao Gao who greets Mei Sheug when they pass each other on their way to their respected areas? Could you define the behavior more? It seems to me there is more to the context we are not aware of. I can only say you are a very lucky person to be working with the most beautiful creatures in the world. You also have bears with the nicest temperments now (I'm not saying Shi Shi didn't have his reasons). Keep up the excellent work!
September 6th, 2005 at 9:06 am
Absolutely fascinating - thanks so much for the information - I've learned so much about Pandas!
Sadly, I sometimes bark at my mom too - when I don't want her in my space… maybe we are more like pandas than we think!
September 6th, 2005 at 9:42 am
When Mei Sheng was taken from Bai Yun six months ago, it was the youngster who had difficulty with the separation. He was used to viewing the world behind the protective presence of his mom. To suddenly be alone without his protector and playmate would have to be traumatic. A couple of times Bai Yun acted a little anxious when it looked like she may have heard something, but on the whole she seemed ok with the separation.
Maybe the weaning process could be drawn out a little longer to give the " baby" more time to adjust.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:26 pm
Myself and my daughter have learnt so much from this website, I keep checking many times a day to see what is going on. I think most people would love to give Mei Sheng a hug if they thought he was missing his mum, what a cutie he is! The baby seems to grow before your eyes, will the baby be out on display as quick as Hua Mei or Mei Sheng was? Keep up the great work, it must be very rewarding working with these pandas, you may not get paid a miilion dollars a year but the experience of close contact with the pandas must be priceless.
September 6th, 2005 at 1:35 pm
I was wondering how much human contact do you have with the adult pandas. Do you go in the enclosure with them? They seem so gentle, but would they attack a human? I just want to hug them!
September 6th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
I was thinking along the same lines as Kay….we try to put nature (animals) & our ways in the same box. When Mei Sheng was weaned, it broke my heart not to see Mom & " Baby Boy" romping around the bedroom, or him following her & imitating her every move. Some days I still feel sad that a 2yr old is off by himself…but I know this is the way of the Pandas (I have to keep reminding myself). Keep up all your good work & thanks for answering the many questions you get.
September 6th, 2005 at 3:59 pm
I have seen the cub roll over from her back to her abdomen twice today. That's great!
September 6th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Another wonderful day watching the panda babies….and I now know how to expand the picture from the Washington Zoo to full screen and it's a lot more fun to watch. Is there any way to expand your Panda Cam to full screen, does anybody out there know how? Both the babies are so sweet and growing so fast. Also does anybody know how to contact the Washington Zoo to ask them questions like we can do here. I searched their web site and can't find any type of blog but maybe I'm missing it somewhere. Or maybe they just don't have one. It would be great to get them to do what you have been doing for all of us out here with the great answers to our questions. Envy you your job…keep up the good work.
September 6th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Hi Suzanne, I have a question about the fertility span of a female panda. Are there any statistics on the number of years they can conceive?
September 6th, 2005 at 4:46 pm
I copy from the National Zoo website an answer to some fanantics who keep asking about the tail of the panda baby :
What happened to the baby's tail? It was so long.
The tail of a newborn panda is long relative to its body length. As the baby grows, the tail becomes proportionately smaller. The rest of the body grows at a faster rate than the tail. Think about a human baby, whose head is relatively large compared to the rest of the body. As the baby grows, other parts of the body grow more than the head does, so the proportion changes and head size relative to body size is " normal."
September 6th, 2005 at 4:56 pm
After running from the path of Hurricane Katrina, I'm now living in Vivan, La north of Shreveport. Thanks for all your prayers. After so much devastation in the last week I was happy to learn that Hua Mei gave birth to twins on 8/29 the same day that the hurricane destroyed my beloved city. Maybe they should name one Katrina.
September 6th, 2005 at 5:06 pm
I was wondering if Shi Shi ever fathered a cub after he left San Diego. Also..I have to throw in my comments about such early separation of the Mom and baby. If they were in the wild, I'm sure that Bai Yun wouldn't have kicked her son out of the house so soon. Can't you just wait until they start showing more signs of " wanting to be alone" ? Their final moments together were just heart wrenching. I hope it wasn't done just so Bai Yun would breed again. That would be so sad. They really enjoyed each other. He was such a mama's boy.
September 6th, 2005 at 10:07 pm
According to the news Hua Mei gave birth in September 04 and now August of 05. That would seem to be a very speedy weaning process. Was she unable to handle (I thought they had to teach her) or is this something Wolong is pursuing along with their cub nursery?
September 6th, 2005 at 10:17 pm
ALso wondered if you would care to comment on the use of the nest vs DC panda which has cub in her " bedroom" . Also panda sleeping habits - do most like to sleep on a shelf above the floor? Does nest encourage Bai Yun to be with her cub more? When she first has this cub, Bai Yun seemed experienced and less likely to be concerned re cub versus DC pandas. Now Mei seems to be pulling away from her cub or sometime frustrated while Bai Yun hardly lets us see hers yet.
September 7th, 2005 at 8:21 am
I learnt from some books that all the zoos raising pandas would build a wooden rack in the pandas' bedroom as pandas like to sleep on the wooden " bed." I wonder what would be used as bed by the pandas in the wild?
September 7th, 2005 at 8:48 am
I just love watching this baby girl cub. I've noticed that she can turn her head from side to side more. Getting strong, and so big!
PS - to Panda lover in New Orleans, I'm so sorry about your loss and am glad you are safe.
September 7th, 2005 at 9:12 am
Donna - if you scroll down to the very bottom of the National Zoo website, click on " contact." You can send an email from there; however, I'm sure they don't want to be inundated with emails. And they may or may not reply. A lot of information is on their " panda pages."
September 7th, 2005 at 9:20 am
HAPPY BIRTHDAY - BAI YUN on what I understand is your 14th birthday.
Your 5wks old daughter is possibly going to be like you and not her dad - at this stage Mei Sheng had Gao Gao's profile!
I think the name chosen for her should reflect Bai Yun and the massive contribution she and the staff at SD have made, they are a credit to all concerned.
We all appreciate your excellent standard of care for the Pandas.
Kind regards….Hazel Turnbull
September 7th, 2005 at 10:45 am
I watch the cub all day checking in on and off-my question is does the cub have its eyes open yet, and if not when? Thanks
September 7th, 2005 at 2:18 pm
Thanks Missouri, I knew about the " contacts" but was looking for somewhere we could send our comments like we can do here. It makes it seem more like the little cubs belong to all of us.
September 7th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
the panda's are so beautiful! you guys and gals are doing a wonderful job taking such good care of them keep up the good work. my daughter and i have been watching them since forever so far we have seen two births thru your wonderful program. we really enjoy seeing them, someday hope to travel to sd to see them in the flesh.
September 8th, 2005 at 5:52 am
Just curious, today is 8th Sept. and I have just looked in at 6.45. It indicated C23. Who is this beautiful panda please?
Valerie Warburton - UK.
September 8th, 2005 at 8:03 am
I can't believe that we haven't heard anything else about Hua Mei and her new cubs. How are they all doing? Did she have girls or boys…or one of each? I'm sure everyone would like to see a picture of them with her.
September 8th, 2005 at 10:54 am
Valerie,
C23 is Gao Gao, in his bedroom!
September 9th, 2005 at 4:43 am
To Belinda: you asked if it was dangerous to get milk from Mei Xiang in DC. The keepers and the pandas are separated by bars. And when they did this it was part of what she has been trained to do. They stand up and expose themselves for the keepers to draw blood or just to check the health in general. But there are still bars between them. The keepers don't go into the same area as the animals. Like you said it's just not safe.
September 9th, 2005 at 11:01 am
Donna - How do you expand the picture from the Washington Zoo to full screen? I usually watch the Animal Planet site since the zoo cams are too busy to get in. Can you expand that site also? Betty
September 11th, 2005 at 10:23 am
Betty–since no one ever answered this, I hope you find it. To expand the Animal Planet site to full screen, right click on the picture at the(green)bottom, and choose " Play in RealPlayer Theatre mode."
September 12th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Thanks, Barbara, for answering my question. Now if I could just get a higher resolution picture in full screen mode …
September 13th, 2005 at 5:34 pm
Betty–I'm glad you found the tip I left for you. There is an option there that is 2x –which is a picture about twice the size of the original–and half the size of full screen. Since it is not so large, it has a better resolution.
October 21st, 2005 at 2:32 pm
My name is Patsy and i am a student at Palo Alto College in San Antonio, Tx. I am doing a research paper on giant pandas and i was hoping i can receive information about a certain question. The question i have is How much would it cost to feed a panda at a zoo per month and How much square foot room does a panda have at a zoo?
December 15th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
My twelve-year-old niece is doing a report on Pandas; she has found most of her information but can't seem to find " Pandas Sleeping Habits." Can you please provide?
Thanks a bunch!