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RussianAre U.S. Zoos Getting Out of the Giant Panda Business?
Posted at 12:45 pm February 28, 2006 by Don Lindburg
What is the cost of a giant panda loan from China? All zoos have agreed to pay an annual fee of one million dollars for each pair, and a one-time fee of not more than $600,000 for each surviving cub. But an even greater cost is that of doing research at home and in China. This is an enhancement activity that is mandated by law. All pandas in the U.S. are therefore imported for research purposes, not for breeding or exhibitry.
A recent article published in the New York Times quoted the director of Zoo Atlanta as saying that unless loan fees are reduced, zoos will begin returning their pandas to China. In my role as giant panda species coordinator for North American zoos, I repeatedly heard comments that the cost of keeping pandas was not offset by the revenues they generated, so I asked for help in doing a cost/benefit analysis of zoos’ cumulative experience. When the bill was totaled for all four zoos having pandas, it indicated that so far the cost of keeping them is substantially more than the revenues they generate. The existing loan agreement for Bai Yun and Gao Gao (pictured above during the last breeding season) expires in 2008. Does this mean that unless costs are reduced, a day may soon come when San Diego will be without pandas?
When their existing loans come up for renewal, it is indeed the case that zoos hope to reduce loan extension fees, and discussions on this point are under way with the government of China. These talks are proceeding in an atmosphere of friendship and trust that has been built up over several years. It will be to the benefit of both parties to come to a mutually satisfactory agreement. Can anyone doubt, for example, that the birth of Hua Mei in 1999 was the beginning of a process that greatly increased world awareness of giant pandas? The subsequent
births of Mei Sheng and Su Lin in San Diego have established that her birth was not a fluke. The birth of a cub at the National Zoo last year added further credibility to the international loan program.
But despite their tremendous appeal, newborn cubs are not the only benefit China has realized from sending pandas abroad as “ambassadors” of their kind. Our tremendous growth in knowledge of giant panda biology and investments in training Chinese personnel have shifted much of the burden of saving pandas from
extinction more directly onto the shoulders of their homeland. One result is that China today is investing huge sums of money into saving habitat for its incredibly rich flora and fauna. The giant panda is a principal beneficiary of this effort.
While it is certainly the case that if each species cost zoos more than its capacity to encourage visitation by the public, zoos would soon be out of business. But for us, this is not a commercial enterprise. We are in the conservation business, and the benefits to conservation of giant pandas have been substantial. When we focus on the benefits side of the equation, we see compelling reasons for continuing the loan program.
Don Lindburg is the San Diego Zoo’s Giant Panda Team leader.
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February 28th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
Thank you for telling us about the concerns regarding costs and benefits. The comments in the news about sending pandas back were unfortunate. (But headlines grab readers!) No matter what the cost, it is well worth it to continue to work with the Chinese scientists to improve the Giant Pandas’ well-being, breeding, habitats, and other parts of the whole package. It is wonderful that zoos, like SDZ, and zoo-members and the public can become aware and contribute to the science and conservation efforts. There are so many of us out here who appreciate the efforts you all are going to and support what you are doing. Please continue to share information with us. (;-)
February 28th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
I am so glad to read Dr. Lindburg’s opinion… that’s what pandas should be all about, awareness, education and conservation. Makes me happy to know that there are so many people dedicated to the protection and research of endangered species and makes me happy to be a member of SDZ.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
Totally support Dr. Don Lindburg!
February 28th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Thank you, Dr. Lindburg, for this information. As much as we would like it, it seems unlikely that China would cut back their loan agreement, as it is always hard to deal with cutbacks. What would they eliminate? They would have less to invest in research and wild habitat–and so it goes–the vicious circle.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
We are so lucky to have insightful Dr. Lindburg as a panda leader! I appreciate everything that SDZ did and is doing in the panda project. Without SDZ and the panda cam, I would never know how adorable pandas are and become a pandaholic myself. SDZ did a wonderful job educating people and “enlightening” me.
I think SDZ really rules. It deserves the title of “world famous” garden. I’ve seen bigger zoos. But I vote SDZ as the No.1.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Bravo, Dr. Lindburg! Thank you for elucidating with such clarity and passion what one can only hope is the prevailing feeling with regard to keeping these wonderful creatures within our sights. We’ve heard a lot of the other side’s thoughts on the subject of costs. It’s a pleasure to hear voice given to the benefits side.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
Wonderful information once again from our panda team! I’ve been a panda nut (my family will agree) since the birth of Hua Mei in 1999. I was glued to the Panda Cam and have been with each birth since!! My interest started with the unsucessful attempts at the D.C. zoo with Ling Ling and Hsing Hsing through the 80s. The D.C zoo was thankfully rewarded this year with that handful, Tai Shan!!. The U.S. teams have added a tremendous amount of important data to the future well-being of this wonderful creature. I sincerely hope that the Atlanta and Memphis zoos will also be fortunate to add to the panda population! It is still China’s critical job of ensuring that land and habitat are set aside in order for them to live safely AND thrive in the wild. Thank you so much for your excellent work all these years for all of our zoos!
February 28th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
I saw the NYT story and a CNN story several months ago. Man, what a deal for China!
I love these wonderful bears–and often wake at 4:00am to watch them go into the yard at NZ–but, I have some very serious concerns about what we’re doing.
Dr. Lindburg said:
“But an even greater cost is that of doing research at home and in China. This is an enhancement activity that is mandated by law.”
What are these costs?
And, I have some other questions:
Isn’t the panda population in China primarily habitat limited? Less habitat, fewer pandas; more habitat, more pandas. If China stabilizes or expands its panda habitat, aren’t the pandas thereby saved? Can’t Wolong–which seems to be a working panda factory–supply pandas for newly discovered habitat areas? And, surely, we can’t put more pandas into the habitat than it can sustain. We’re participating in a program that costs a lot of money and yet I’m having trouble seeing exactly what the goal is or why it’s even needed at this point. I’m wondering about China ending up with a huge and exclusive tourist attraction and we’ll have zip.
So, as much as I’m crazy about watching Tai and Mei everyday, I have to say that we should buy out these pandas or send them back. I’d rather see a program of “national pets” that we don’t have to send back. It really is going to hurt when Tai Shan and Su Lin have to leave.
February 28th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
Thank you, Dr. Lindburg, for all that you and your team do! There truly is more to life than the “bottom line” and in the case of our wonderful Pandas it is priceless! Every bit of knowledge gained is another glimmer of hope for the future of these magical bears! Blessings to you and all on the team and good fortune to you and those involved in negotiations with China. We so appreciate all that it has taken to have come this far and we thank you for that and for sharing so much with us. Luv to You All, Judy J
February 28th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
#8: I’ve grown up with the National Zoo, and I first fell in love with the long-beloved Ling-Ling and Hsing-Hsing in 1972. However, the ongoing panda story is about much, much more than “merely” loving these wonderful bears for our own enjoyment.
The giant panda is a critically endangered species, and the goal for all of us worldwide is to develop a captive breeding population to both build the numbers in the wild and to ensure a plan for continuing the species should the wild population dwindle further. A critical part of this plan is to increase the amount of habitat suited to the giant panda, so that there will be a way to sustain a hopefully growing population. From every report we get from not only the SDZ but from Wolong itself, China is making tremendous strides in expanding the captive population and in buying back habitat. I just read a web account of scientists using money to prevent farmers from killing a wild panda that had killed several animals; this is an example of the kind of progress being made to save the giant panda. Dr. Lindburg himself speaks to the Chinese success in both breeding pandas and working to save habitat.
Caring about giant pandas is about much more than having familiar, albeit-beloved animals on exhibit to see. Ever since the advent of Species Survival Plans among US zoos in the 1980s, the welfare of populations as a whole has become paramount. Even WITHIN the US, one zoo may “lose” a particular animal to another zoo in the interest of reproduction and establishing a solid gene pool.
Furthermore, expanded habitat alone can’t solve the problem; giant pandas have trouble breeding, and the NZP scientist responsible for Tai’s AI has said that there are only 9 male pandas in the world known to breed naturally. They simply don’t get enough chances to try to develop successful techniques. Have you seen all the different videos of Tian Tian repeatedly trying to breed Mei Xiang’s ear one unsuccessful year? US scientists have been instrumental in developing new AI techniques and ways of freezing sperm, and teams have gone to China to both share this knowledge and to help train keepers and curators.
I object strongly to the notion that China is a “working panda factory.” Anyone who has watched the painstaking work at Wolong for the past 20 years can attest that the survival of 16 cubs in a single year is the result of arduous devotion and labor, not a capricious windfall like winning the lottery. Those precious cubs have come at a high cost in both money and time. An article, featuring a picture and personality profile of each of the 12 pandas originally considered for Taiwan, shows clearly that each and every giant panda is a singular, unique achievement–not at all a mundane product churned out like broomsticks or chopsticks or matchsticks. All one need do is surf the Internet or read the many informative blogs herein to better understand the conservation needs of the giant panda–and see how very much is being accomplished toward ensuring the survival of this unique species.
Part of that accomplishment is the four precious cubs born on US soil. From the military parade given to Hua Mei upon her return and the way she is described by the Chinese press as “the American-born beauty,” it’s clear that China cherishes each and every panda, even one foreign-born. And, even if all we consider is our own personal pleasure, I fail to see how we could ever be left with “zip” when we’ve had years to treasure Mei, Tian, Bai, Shi Shi, Gao Gao, and their wonderful offspring. When Hsing Hsing died in 1998, I mourned not only a wonderful bear, but the chance for my then-toddler daughter to ever experience this wonderful creature. Now with Tian and Mei in our lives, she’s had 5 years of panda-viewing and already wants to go into zoology to preserve endangered species. We benefit from watching the giant panda, but she understands that we benefit even more by getting beyond our own personal satisfaction and considering the more-important issue for the world of saving an entire species. Even though we may miss our beloved pandas when they leave the US, we need to be strengthened and warmed by the thought of their serving a much higher purpose than entertaining us. Hua Mei has produced four cubs, one of whom already has the honor of being chosen to go Taiwan as a symbol of diplomacy; someday, perhaps the offspring of “our” cubs may even be able to return to the wild, a major step in ensuring the panda’s survival.
It’s been said that even our own children aren’t really “ours,” rather that they are completely-programmed individuals that we simply have the pleasure to “borrow” until they have moved out into the world on their own; we simply treasure them before we have to let them go. So too is it with the giant panda. The thought that the giant panda may be moving slowly away from extinction should be the sentiment that we embrace and that warms us when we ponder the departures of any of “our” pandas. Our stay on this planet is a short one, and the only way to transcend the loss of anything “borrowed” in time is to relish the satisfaction we get from making the earth better for tomorrow.
March 1st, 2006 at 5:29 am
i applaude your efforts and hope that the contracts can be revised, because although expensive it has brought a large awareness to the general public of the beauty of all the animals facing extinction, not just the panda, the panda is the embassador for all to take a closer look at the environment for all and we must be more aware of what we are doing to help make changes for the better. sometimes although painful we have to give alittle to get the big picture. thanks
March 1st, 2006 at 6:51 am
I hope there will always be pandas at SDZ, what a buzz it gives you to see these bears well cared for by people who obviously love what they do, how I envy them, although I would not like to be them the day Su Lin has to go back, a few tears will be shed I am sure. Did anybody see Su Lin all covered in mud ..even cuter! I hope a picture of her can be put up in her photo album.
March 1st, 2006 at 7:02 am
At the very least, China should “reward” the zoos which have been successful in breeding and producing cubs. What more could they do with Bai & Gao Gao than SDZ is doing? I should think they would be happy to leave them here and that would be one less productive pair they would have to care for. And it seems as though our zoos are leaders in research, so why not reward those who are producing such fine results with less stringent and lower costs? . . . And yet, I very reluctantly see why China would need our cubs for their gene pool . . .
March 1st, 2006 at 8:02 am
Hello Fellow Panda Parents!! The idea of losing our pandas makes me physically ill. It is so hard to let go of them and I hope some agreements can be reached at some point to keep them. You all do such great work there and it is so appreciated.
#7 - Hello Candy - This is another Candy in Iowa. Have you heard that the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha wants to get a pair of pandas? What a wonderful thing for the Midwest pandaholics!!!
March 1st, 2006 at 8:06 am
Very interesting - and eye-opening information on the cost to host our precious pandas. Here’s a thought…with the “explosion” of panda cubs this past year at Wolong, and the associated costs to the Chinese for “child support,” so to speak, how about sending some of the cubs, when feasible, to other US zoos? Supply and demand may kick in here, i.e., more panda cubs to loan, the price we pay to house them may go down, or could be negotiated down. China wins by having someone else feed and house the pandas, they still get a fee for doing so, plus the expanded research that goes with it, and we win by getting more pandas in the US to visit, watch, love, enjoy, and have expanded research. With the great track record at SDZ and now at DC, our “credentials” are in order. And the pandas win by getting more expanded living space than just Wolong would allow, plus enrichment. Seems like a win/win/win situation to me.
Any thoughts?
March 1st, 2006 at 8:18 am
There are many panda lovers among us from around the world on this blog, which is absolutely beautiful. But what we have to understand and realize is that the pandas belong to China. So far China has decided not to sell their national treasures (the pandas), but only lease them for research and conservation purposes. And since the pandas are not up for sale, we will have to continue to negotiate the leases the best way possible so that all parties are satisfied and that the best interest of the pandas is carried out. I will say this again. As long as we come from a country full of millionaires, billionaires, and entrepreneurs, I predict that the price tag will remain the same for some time. That’s reality.
March 1st, 2006 at 11:37 am
Totally support Dr Lindburg.
Totally agree with #10 Christine (NJ).
March 1st, 2006 at 11:38 am
The comments posted so far have been so thoughtful and it makes it even more difficult to add more. It’s clear to me, though, that many of us have developed a strong emotional connection to the pandas, especially “ours” at SDZ. The incredible costs and business issues, then, seem hard to fathom, yet I read Dr. Lindburg’s post with great respect and admiration. We (the pandaholics among us) have the easy job of adoring and loving these creatures and hopefully we have learned much throughout the process, too. I share my intense care for pandas and other precious animals with my daughter. I hope and pray her generation and those to follow reap the benefits of current research and discoveries.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:31 pm
Bravo, Christine! (#10) Well said!
March 1st, 2006 at 12:39 pm
I enjoyed reading the information about the high cost of panda loans to the various zoos in the United States but being a panda lover and enjoying the many opportunities that I have had to visit the various zoos in the United States that have panda loans at this current time I would hate to see the end of the pandas being on loan to San Diego, Atlanta, Memphis and Washington DC along with other cities that are considering a panda loan. I have travelled on many occasions to see the pandas in these zoos and have plans to make additonal trips over the next couple of years to see the pandas. I hope that the best interest for the pandas will be considered but can understand the finances involved for the zoos. But during the visits I have made to see pandas I have met others that love these animals as much as I do and who also travel from other areas to see the pandas. SO in the cost analysis this is something that is not being considered and the benefits for the cities that have pandas from the support of hotel costs and other costs that occur for these cities.
March 1st, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Christine! (#10) wonderfully said!
I feel sad when seeing many people and rich corporations, lots of them wealthy, who are only conscious about their own well-being and profit-seeking but ignore the very ecosystem around them that is the very support for their success. I am always warmed when I read from my fellow animal lovers here on the understandings that we share. I can only hope that more and more people will care about pandas and all of the endangered species instead of taking for granted all the conservation work others have contributed. As #16 Laylah said, I think the issue is not because China wants to make a profit–China is spending much more money on pandas than what it gains from the US–rather, the issue is there are still too few people who care about pandas and endangered species to make a valuable contribution.
March 1st, 2006 at 4:38 pm
I saw how dirty Su Lin made herself yesterday! Wow! I have never seen Su Lin getting herself so dirty! A gray and black panda baby that I could hardly find when she was standing next to Bai Yun! What happened? Did Bai Yun clean her up? I don’t expect Su Lin doing such. It seems to be more of a Tai Shan behavior.
March 1st, 2006 at 7:28 pm
great post #10 Christine (NJ)! Can’t agree more.
I come from China. The Panda is much loved there. We often label something very precious as ‘panda-like’. Of course, there is much more we should do to protect this and many other animals. Despite the recent high growth rate, most people in China are still poor. The living conditions for Pandas in China is much better than that for ordinary people. So maybe looking at things from different perspectives would bring more mutual understanding from people here and in China.
We appreciate a lot that US scientists and people help to study and save pandas. Hua Mei is often called American-born Princess. And I heard they let her choose her partner among 4-5 best young bachlors in Wolong.
She actually changes her mind from year to year. No problem, it is all her choice.
March 1st, 2006 at 8:21 pm
Many thanks to Dr. Lindburg and his team, and three cheers to #10!
March 2nd, 2006 at 6:32 am
Thank you very much, Dr. Lindburg and your panda team. Totally support you! I hope China won’t charge extra cost for panda cubs, cub is the bonus and reward to panda teams!
March 2nd, 2006 at 8:28 am
Kay! (21) Well said! I couldn’t agree with you more! Pandas are treasure of the whole Human Kind, not just that of China. Please be broad-minded as a global citizen!
March 2nd, 2006 at 10:00 am
Earlier this week it appeared another animal had managed to get into the Panda area…Bai Yun had her back to the camera and this “creature” could be seen roaming around. Eventually Bai Yun stopped eating and came to ‘confront’ the interloper. It took quite a while, but it was finally apparent that this was Su Lin covered in what must have been mud. What a bath that must have been! I would love to know more about that episode.
March 2nd, 2006 at 10:22 am
I had to scroll back to see what Christine said. And all that I have to say is that she captured everything very well. Her statement is very well said.
March 2nd, 2006 at 10:49 am
Doing non-profit work in the for-profit world and having to explain that to the for-profit minds can be hard and misleading. All my friends thought I was crazy when I studied to get my ham radio license as it wasn’t going to help me in any way to advance my career or increase my income. Same folks also think I’m crazy to keep going back to give blood on a regular basis as I never get paid for doing it.
I really appreciated Dr. Lindburg’s article. Two sides to every story. I truly believe that education is the key. Especially having the locals where pandas live understand the importance of co-existance. Even here in Southern California, people invade the territories of wildlife. People complain that there’s a family of bears swimming in their backyard pool. It’s not them that invaded your backyard. It’s you that invaded their home.
When it comes to Giant Pandas (and many others) at the zoo, it’s true that someone has to pay the bills. I mean, despite the wealth of knowledge we can gather through the research and conservation efforts, what would you do when you can’t afford to pay for food, supplies, utilities and payroll? That’s the tough part.
I hope both parties in the Giant Panda programs can reach some mutually beneficial agreement at the renewal time, because I love seeing Bai Yun and the gang!!!!!
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Thanks, Dr. Lindburg.
The fees that the zoos pay for the pandas can be seen as donations of sort. When we donate to our favorite charity, we give what we can and don’t ask for anything in return. What we do get back is the personal satisfaction that we’ve contributed to a worthy cause. We’re not obligated to always give, just like the zoos aren’t obligated to keep the pandas forever. The goal of panda preservation has yet been fully realized, and therefore our zoos will continue to act like major donors, and we get to benefit off of their generosities.
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:42 pm
You’re so right, #29, about people taking over lands from animals. I remember that every time our local raccoons get into the trash bags at the curb when I forget to spray repellent, when I have to take hummingbird feeders in at night, and when the food I put out for squirrels is gone in the morning. Raccoon families were here in our wooded neighborhood long before people were. They don’t mean to be a problem, they’re hungry! They can have all the food they can get to in my yard.
March 2nd, 2006 at 1:02 pm
#23, Queiny: Your comment sent chills up my spine; reading that the majority of Chinese HUMANS live in conditions poorer than the pandas at Wolong or Chengdu really puts things in perspective. China simply CAN’T save the giant panda without financial help. Perhaps unlike many people, I think it’s probably been very hard for the Chinese to let an animal as culturally precious as the panda leave their country, not to mention specimens as beautiful and special to them as Bai Yun, the first panda cub to survive at Wolong. Quieny, you remind us that, as much as we think we treasure this unique species for its appearance and personality, the Chinese have long treasured the panda for even more, for its ties to diplomacy and as a spiritual symbol special to their very culture. I’ve long sensed that, far from thinking of its panda population in sheer numbers, the Chinese so treasure each and every one that they were counting the days until Hua Mei’s return “to her ancestral home.” There’s a spiritual, almost mystical reverence given to the panda that leaves absolutely no question for me that China is devoted to saving this species and is using our loan payments faithfully. US dollars and scientific expertise are at least partly responsible for each of those 16 surviving Wolong cubs this year. The results of our loan payments can be seen literally in black-and-white.
March 2nd, 2006 at 2:47 pm
#27 Lynne, I saw that too! Su Lin was completely covered in mud. At first, I thought there was a piece of rock standing next to Bai Yun. Later I thought it was a black squirrel. Only when she started to nurse, I realized that it was Su Lin. She was sooo adorable. She looked timid as if she had done something very wrong and Bai Yun would discipline her. I have to say pandas are so pretty for being black and white. But when they make themselves so dirty, it’s just sooo funny! I hope Suzanne could tell us more about what happened and how she got her clean so quickly!
March 3rd, 2006 at 9:15 am
Thank you so much for that information. I share your viewpoints, completely. It’s very comforting to know that all panda lovers, around the world, have such an insightful, intelligent and caring man on the side of our pandas.
March 3rd, 2006 at 10:55 am
#32 Christine: I add my two cents to what Queiny expressed. Although China has had impressive growth in the recent 20 years, it is still a developing country. The media is more concerned about China’s dominance, but downplays the many, many problematic areas there and the vast majority of people who live in poverty. Some of the areas where pandas live are quite poor. It is certainly true that many pandas live better than the ordinary people there. I often hear from my friends saying that they wish they could become pandas in their next life incarnation. I am very grateful to all the wonderful effort the zoos here have endeavored. Together, they not only contributed great insight into pandas but also raised awareness for the pandas. Conservation is a difficult task. When I visited NZ a couple weeks ago, I saw the great effort the keepers spent in trying to train the female elephant to prepare her for artificial insemination in April. Again, I hope the US zoos will continue their conservation effort in giant pandas (selfishly, I wish there could be more pandas in the US, e.g., in New York). More importantly, I wish and I wish that more and more people could think like most of our panda lovers here.
March 3rd, 2006 at 3:07 pm
We know that Mei Sheng likes to look at the other pandas over the fence. Has Su Lin ever shown any interest in Mei Sheng or Gao Gao when she has been high in the trees?
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:38 pm
#35, Kay: Thank you for your thoughts, which in my mind are worth at least two dollars! This puts into perspective not only the issue of whether China could be shouldering the conservation of giant pandas alone, but also the issue of the panda’s quality of care at Wolong and Chengdu.
Perhaps I can give you two cents’ worth in return! You can catch the elephant manager at NZP doing her newly extensive training sessions with Shanthi at slightly differing times between 8 and 9:30 AM daily on the Inside Elephant Cam. There is also a great article about Shanthi’s AI in 2000; go to the Asian Elephant page, click on “Asian Elephant Facts” at the bottom, and go to the bottom of that page and click on the ‘Zoogoer’ article entitled “Making Room for Elephants.” This attempt for another elephant calf is so very special in so many ways!
LOL I’ve seen the Candys from Iowa joking about meeting here when they live in the same state. Looks like we’re the local girls from the NYC area here!
March 3rd, 2006 at 5:19 pm
I just read my weekly SDZ Newsletter in my mailbox, and it has a funny anecdote about Mei Sheng. Apparently he is now learning to slide his arm in a metal “sleeve” and grasp the bar at the other end. Keepers gently poke him with a mock syringe once he is locked in this position.
Editor’s note: You can read our most recent e-newsletter, and/or sign up to receive the free weekly e-newsletter from the link on our home page (www.SanDiegoZoo.org).
March 3rd, 2006 at 8:04 pm
To #14 Candy in Iowa: It would be a dream if the Omaha Zoo could get a panda pair! We have a 1 yr. old grandaughter and 1 1/2 grandson that we have talked of taking to Omaha Zoo as soon as they get a bit older. The topper would be if they had pandas by then!!!
I wish I’d seen Su Lin the mud ball the other day - going to have to go back through the past videos to catch it!!
To my fellow pandaholics - GREAT blogs this week!!
March 4th, 2006 at 1:07 am
With this great article and the Mad Mud Tuesday, I forgot to wish Su Lin a happy 7th month birthday.
March 4th, 2006 at 10:01 am
Su Lin is sure high up! And with her still grayish fur, she’s even harder to spot in the trees.
March 4th, 2006 at 10:26 am
#37, Christine: I am also from New York, and it would be an absolute dream come true to have pandas at our Bronx Zoo! I’m sure that many of you know that the Bronx Zoo was the first zoo in the US to ever have a panda, after Ruth Harkness brought one over from China in the 1930’s. That was some time ago–huh?–I think we’re loooong overdue!
March 4th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Regarding the cost of keeping pandas being more than the revenue they generate: How about “selling” special visits to see the pandas up close and maybe feed them a carrot through a wire fence? I’ve seen small groups of people at the DC zoo do this. I don’t know if they were VIPs or if they paid for special contact with the animals. If perhaps one or two days a week you could allow 6-8 people to feed the pandas, I would think people would be willing to pay $50-75 to do so. Or instead of feeding, people could pay to have their picture taken with a panda of their choice — with the panda in an enclosure, of course.
March 4th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Warm greeting to #37 Christine! Thank you very much for your >$2 information on the Asian elephants at NZP. It must be such a difficult task to perform AI on an animal so large! I hope the effort is successful, so there will be a joyous little (but large to us) elephant overlooking Tai Shan. I have always dreamed of having pandas at the Brooklyn zoo. It seems that the Brooklyn zoo had pandas for a short time many years ago. NYC always outspends other cities: 2 NBA teams, 2 NFL teams, 2 baseball teams, and 2 NHL teams. I think watching pandas would be a healthy entertainment for the bankers in NYC. The pandas possess a ZEN-type of quality: eating bamboo and always behaving so cool! Watching them will definitely help the bankers here to get distracted from their work and provide a healthy and meaningful method to stay happy!
March 4th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
I think many of us feel previleged since Pandas choose to live in China. And it is a pity that we haven’t taken good care of them, otherwise they would not be endangered. They are peaceful and beautiful animals. And the attention they got since their arrival in the US in 1970s also help to boost their popularity in china. I can’t guess how hard for Bai Yun’s caretaker in Wolong to let her go. Maybe they feel happy for her since they know she will be in better hands for better care. Even I am from China, the first panda I feel I know personally is Tai Shan since I can see him all the time. I am glad Tai and Su live happily in the zoo. Still I hope they can roam freely in the wild one day even if that means we might not see them very often. I had hoped all the effort to save Pandas is for their benefit only, not blended with diplomatic, financial, and entertaining reasons.
March 4th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
I think I can see another bear on the other side of the fence sometimes when watching through C4(camera 4). I see something with movements (possibly from moving and eating bamboo stalks & shoots) in black and white on the background.
Might that bear be Mei Sheng?
March 4th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Is our little Su Lin eating bamboo? About 15 min ago it sure looked like it.
If the cam would zoom in to the head and mouth when she is holding and chewing,
the bamboo we could see if she really is eating the bamboo.
March 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
To #46–I was wondering the same thing. It looks too big to be Su Lin at that distance. Maybe it is Mei Sheng watching his momma eat her bamboo! (;) I took some screen shots of the “Mud Baby” from the time-lapse video. They came out so good, I sent two to my nephew who just went to Australia for a junior-year-abroad college program in environmental science.
Christine (#10), you express yourself so well, it’s a pleasure to read what you have to say. I often feel like I’m reading notes from friends all around the world on this super blog. Whatever we contribute to the care of all pandas, in China and here, it’s worth it. I can’t think of a nicer way to support all of the programs that are underway. And look what we get in return, a beautiful family of bears and a whole group of new friends around the world. Aren’t we fortunate to be able to do this?!
The staff here and in China deserve much more that we can ever do or say to them. They put such care and love into their work. I wish we could get to know them and say “Thank You” in person.
March 4th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Thanks to #42 Lulu, I meant Bronx zoo. I must not be so much of a New Yorker to confuse the names.
March 4th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
#42, Lulu: I THINK Ruth Harkness’s panda Su Lin went to the Brookfield Zoo in Chicago, but I do know that The Bronx Zoo had two pandas about a decade later, Pandee and Pandah, I think. If you type “famous pandas” into a search engine, you can learn more. I just learned that The Bronx Zoo is planning to phase out its elephants, a move that shows both how expensive it is for a zoo to have elephants and how endangered elephants are in American zoos. That story is a great one to remind us that there are many endangered species out there. You go, girl; propose pandas to the Bronx Zoo!
#44, Kay: I’m afraid Tai will only have a short time with a new baby elephant, since gestation takes 22 months! However, I think he already gets to experience 4-year-old Kandula, Shanthi’s current calf. Kandula is quite a headstrong little guy–and trumpets regularly! I’ve even heard him on the panda cam, so there’s no doubt that Tai hears this too! What on earth must he think?! Despite all of the buzz here about possible pandas at other US zoos, the only one I’ve heard solid reports about is Oakland. I think you should join forces with Lulu to get pandas at the Bronx Zoo! By the way, I lived in Brooklyn for 10 years–do you mean the Prospect Park Zoo?
March 5th, 2006 at 7:57 am
I caught a georgous shot of Mei Sheng this morning. The way he was posed, there were colored leaves in the foreground looking like flowers.
March 5th, 2006 at 8:38 am
#39 - Candy, it sounds pretty possible from what I’ve read so far regarding the Henry Doorly Zoo. Perhaps Suzanne, Don, or Ellie might know. I used to live across the river from the zoo and now live a couple hours away. If you haven’t been there, it is a great zoo.
Su Lin was sooooo cute making a mud pie of herself the other day, and you got the impression that Mama Bai didn’t find it as charming as I did. LOL
For those who love Shi Shi as much as I do, I heard from my friend at that zoo a couple of days ago, and he says that Shi Shi appears to be totally blind now. Poor old guy.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
Wow!!!! We just need to hold a positive thought…visualize our pandas remaining in the United States for a very long time to come..visualize the means of financial support is ours to have…we will create this I feel it in my heart..keep positive always.. And thank you for all that you all share with all the animals, especially our panda bears!!!
March 6th, 2006 at 8:13 am
I too would like to see a panda in NY, but on the other side - I live in Buffalo. We have a great zoo here. Maybe one day we’ll add a panda to our wonderful zoo.
March 6th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
Christine, I read Lady and the Panda a couple months ago and am trying to recall the specifics of Ruth’s “baby” Su Lin’s zoo home. It seems that the Bronx Zoo had first dibs, but when Ruth came back with Su Lin in tow, they hemmed and hawed about the deal. Brookfield Zoo ponied up the $$ for Ruth’s second expedition to China, and became the first zoo in the US to have a panda.
March 10th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Oh no……I am devastated by this news . There ought to be a way that we (the U.S.) can have some of our very own Giant Pandas. China should have loaned us those Pandas free of cost. On top of it the cost of our Panda Research Team to successfully produce each Giant Panda Cub is so tremendous and we have to pay the Chinese Government $600,000 for each surviving cub? I think we should get to keep all of the surviving cubs at no charge. What can we do to help?
Believe it or not there are still so many people not aware of how precious and rare these Giant Pandas are. I brought Tai Shan’s picute with me to a casino; while playing the slot machine I put his picture in front of the machine. One lady said “Oh what a cute Koala”. I told her that he is a Panda, his name is Tai Shan. She then asked me “is he yours” (oh, how I wish he is). It took me 15 minutes to give her a little history of Tai Shan and his ancestord. After the lady left, another one walked by and said “oh, how cute” then she asked me “what kind of animal is that? Is that yours? etc….Needless to said, I am disappointed at the fact that obviously there are still many many people out there still not aware of how rare and precious these gentle and wonderful Giant Pandas are. And perhaps that is why we don’t get enough help to raise the funds that we need to maintain those wonderful Giant Pandas here with us.
Maybe Animal Planet Channel can help to do an annual “Pandathon” or even other networks, to educate the world and bring more awareness to help these wonderful Giant Pandas. I have been buying Lotto tickets every day. I might get lucky and rest assured “PANDA HEAVEN” shall come true. It might sound crazy to you, but that is my ultimate dream. For the moment, I will send sponsor the Panda packages from National Zoo as a gift to every single friend and for every single occasion (Birthday, Christmas, Valentine, etc…). I know it’s not much but I hope my friends will follow my pattern and do the same for their friends. It might add up.
What about PIXAR production? How about creating a movie cartoon about these cutest Panda Cubs. Who can say “no” to those cutest faces from Tai Shan, Su Lin, Hua Mei, Mei Sheng. I am enjoying watching Tai Shan and Su Lin daily on the webcam. But I also hate to think of the day they are leaving us. They are truely the cutest, most adorable, gentle, wonderful, etc….cubs!
March 13th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
Kudos to Dr Lindburg. You are not only a great scientist but also a great animal lover.
April 3rd, 2006 at 5:46 pm
i totally agree with #10
pandas are loveable but we can’t just enjoy them for ourselves
they have feelings and families i don’t think we should take them out of the wild just to put in zoos to look at
imagine if you were in a boring enclosure with people staring at you all day
you wouldn’t like it would you?
why can’t we just let them be and not destroy their habitats!!!!!!